| IVOD_ID |
151553 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151553 |
| 日期 |
2024-04-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-23-8 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-04-22T11:25:00+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-04-22T11:31:59+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:06:59 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5754819b6179c336ca961b9a46e0f962f397fd65b575a832dcb4691eb09bf4e2c918614e2a6c40d45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:25:00 - 11:31:59 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-04-22T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信得列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。
二、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於國家運輸安全調查委員會預算凍結案計6案。） |
| gazette.lineno |
785 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
黃委員國昌：（11時25分）謝謝主席，麻煩有請主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
林主任委員信得：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
黃委員國昌：主委，在上上屆國會的時候成立國家運安會，我是大力支持，為什麼大力支持？那個時候發生一件大家都很心痛的事情，就是普悠瑪的事故。從普悠瑪事故發生以後，這個國家、這個社會認知到獨立的調查有多重要，特別是有關於交通主管機關，他們針對會牽涉到非常多型的安全問題的時候，怎麼樣獨立、客觀、專業的提出意見，這是我們當初對運安會的期許。我今天要請教的問題是，在普悠瑪事故以後，臺鐵推出了行列監控4.0，這個行列監控4.0去跟國科會的科發基金要了6,000萬的補助。要了6,000萬的補助也不是臺鐵自己做，臺鐵彷彿成為一個轉包中心，拿了6,000萬以後轉交給一個叫做理立系統的公司，這件事情主委知不知道？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
林主任委員信得：我不是很清楚，但是…… |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
黃委員國昌：你如果不是很清楚的話，請回去搞清楚。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
林主任委員信得：這個案子是這樣子，它在去年1月13號有召開研討會，邀請產學界的專家，還有國科會、臺鐵局都有參與討論，目前這個還是屬於測試階段。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
黃委員國昌：我就簡單問一件事，從運安會的角度來講，花了6,000萬搞了這個東西，有用還是沒有用？有辦法滿足我們當初對於臺鐵所提出來的質疑嗎？有沒有辦法真正提升行車的安全？從運安會的角度來講，主委也說了嘛，運安會開了研討會，那天研討會大家的意見是什麼？臺鐵搞這個行控4.0好棒棒，有大幅提升列車行駛、保護乘客的安全性嗎？而這根本沒有用！花拳繡腿，浪費納稅人的錢，圖利特定的廠商，你們研討會的結論是什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
林主任委員信得：我們把一些紀錄給臺鐵局參考，我認為這個還沒有達到真正的效果。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
黃委員國昌：什麼叫做還沒有達到真正的效果？到底有用還是沒有用？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
林主任委員信得：目前看起來是沒有顯著的…… |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
黃委員國昌：這就是我今天要提出質詢最主要的目的，花了6,000萬，補助了一個莫名其妙的廠商，結果沒有用！納稅人的錢不是這樣花的。運安會站在你們主管機關的立場，就要站出來告訴國人運安會反對臺鐵這樣胡搞瞎搞，慷納稅人之慨花了6,000萬，做了什麼東西出來？從運安會的角度來講，根本沒有用！這個是當初成立運安會的時候，我們期待運安會要本於獨立、要本於專業的立場，告訴全體國人的事情，我為什麼這樣講？這個理立系統公司政治關係很好，拉了一堆政治人物幫他們背書，搞到他們自己的創辦人都跑去國發會裡面負責亞洲矽谷計畫，結果我們的經濟部在2020年給他優良廠商的獎，獲獎的理由是什麼？我跟主委報告一下，主委說你不是很清楚，所以我報告給你聽，獲獎的理由是它有參與美國佛羅里達州Jacksonville市自駕快捷系統，我看了這個覺得很了不起，我國的廠商竟然打入了美國的自駕車市場，這件事情我們一定要好好地鼓勵。結果我那時候回到民間社會接到檢舉說這根本就是假的，這得獎的理由從頭到尾都是假的。為了實事求是，我主動找我們的協會跟美國的Jacksonville Transportation Authority聯絡，詢問理立參加他們的計畫，請問參加的狀況是什麼？結果主委你知道我得到的回復是什麼嗎？這是錯的，這個是虛偽不實的，This is false，這個公司跟他們4個自駕車的系統沒有任何契約關係，也沒有參與。我們能夠進軍國際市場是好事，但是拿在外國捏造的理由，臺灣政府還頒獎給它，這就是天大的笑話！結果它拿著這個獎的光環，做了什麼事情？在國內拿了一堆補助，結果自駕車在臺南的計畫終止，臺中的終止，都拿了好幾千萬，現在臺鐵的行控4.0，就我掌握到的狀況，連你們自己運安會都砲聲隆隆，對於它的專業性、可行性、安全性、跟現在的系統是不是重疊、能不能夠增加輔助的功能全面批判，我就有興趣了，如果是全面批判的話，花了六千多萬到底是在慷誰之慨？主席站起來了，我尊重主席。請主委裁示會後請運安會從專業的角度，針對臺鐵行控4.0到底有沒有用、還是亂花錢，提出運安會的書面報告，可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
林主任委員信得：可以，沒問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
黃委員國昌：多久？1個禮拜可不可以？研究很久了，我全部都整理完了，臺鐵把列控4.0當萬靈丹，運安會的回復是批判一堆，根本沒用啊！1個禮拜可不可以？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
主席：主委，1週內有沒有問題？ |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
林主任委員信得：好，1個禮拜、1週內。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
黃委員國昌：這件事情要追究責任，6,000萬怎麼花的？ |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
主席：再請1週內主委提供給黃國昌委員及交通委員會的委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
黃委員國昌：政治人物可以這樣圖利自己、支持自己的廠商喔？胡搞瞎搞！謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
林主任委員信得：謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
主席：謝謝黃國昌委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][1] |
請楊瓊瓔委員。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
176 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-23-8 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
陳雪生 |
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李昆澤 |
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林國成 |
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許智傑 |
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徐富癸 |
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何欣純 |
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魯明哲 |
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陳素月 |
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林俊憲 |
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林沛祥 |
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廖先翔 |
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蔡其昌 |
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邱若華 |
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游顥 |
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林倩綺 |
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洪孟楷 |
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黃國昌 |
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楊瓊瓔 |
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羅智強 |
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張啓楷 |
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黃健豪 |
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黃仁 |
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123 |
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2024-04-22 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1133201 |
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立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信得列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查 113
年度中央政府總預算關於國家運輸安全調查委員會預算凍結案計6案 |
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謝謝主席,麻煩有請主委。好,請主委。 |
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14.624 |
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謝偉主委在上上屆國會的時候成立國家運安會我是大力支持為什麼大力支持那個時候發生一件大家都很心痛的事情就是普悠瑪的事故從普悠瑪的事故以後這個國家這個社會認知到獨立的調查 |
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有多重要特別是在有關於交通主管機關他們針對會牽涉到非常多型的安全問題的時候怎麼樣獨立、客觀、專業提出意見這是我們當初對運輸安全調查委員會的期許 |
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我今天要請教的問題是說在普悠瑪事故以後台鐵推出了一個行列監控4.0那這個行列監控4.0卻跟科發基金我們的國科會要了6千萬要了6千萬的補助 |
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97.816 |
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要6千萬的補助也不是台鐵自己做我們台鐵彷彿成為一個轉包中心去拿6千萬了以後轉交給一個公司叫做李立系統公司這件事情主委知不知道我不是很清楚但是你如果不是很清楚的話請回去搞清楚 |
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你如果不是很清楚的話請回去搞清楚他這個案子是這樣子他在去年的1月13號有召開研討會他邀請產學界的專家還有國科會台北局都有討論他目前這個還是屬於測試階段我就簡單問一個事嘛從運安會的角度來講花了6千萬搞了這個東西有用還是沒有用 |
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128.001 |
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138.177 |
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有辦法滿足我們當初對台鐵所提出來的質疑有沒有辦法真正的能夠提升行車的安全 |
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從運安會的角度來講主委也說了嘛運安會開了研討會嘛那天研討會大家的意見是什麼台鐵搞得這個行控4.0好棒棒大幅提升列車行駛保護乘客的安全性還是根本沒有用花拳秀腿浪費納稅的錢圖利特定的廠商你們研討會的結論是什麼 |
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我們把一些紀錄給台鐵去參考我認為這個還沒有達到真正的效果什麼叫做還沒有達到這個效果有用沒有用嗎目前看起來是沒有顯示這個就是我今天要提這個質詢最主要的目的花了6000萬補助了一個莫名其妙的廠商結果沒有用納稅的錢不是這樣花的運安會站在你們主管機關的立場 |
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198.43 |
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225.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
就站出來告訴國人啊運安會反對台鐵這樣胡搞瞎搞啊扛納稅人資卡啊花了6千萬做了什麼東西出來啊從運安會的角度來講根本沒有用這個是我當初期待我們成立運安會的時候運安會要本於獨立要本於專業的立場告訴全體國人的事情我為什麼這樣講喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
228.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
242.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
這個履歷系統政治關係很好拉了一堆政治人物幫他們背書啊結果搞到他們自己的創辦人自己都跑去國務發會裡面負責亞洲矽谷計畫結果我們的經濟部2020年給他什麼給他優良廠商 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
252.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
265.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
獲獎的理由是什麼我跟主委報告一下主委說你不是很清楚嗎我報告給你聽獲獎的理由是他有參與美國佛羅里達州Jacksonville市自駕快捷系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
266.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
294.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我看了這個覺得很了不起啊我國的廠商竟然打入了美國的自駕車市場啊這個事情我們一定要好好的鼓勵啊結果我那時候回到民間社會啊我接到檢舉啊說這根本就是假的這得獎的理由從頭到尾是假的為了實事求是啊我主動我們協會跟美國的Jacksonville Transportation Authority聯絡 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
296.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
318.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
說欸這個李立啊參加你們的請問參加的狀況是什麼結果主委你知道我得到的回覆是什麼嗎這是錯的這個是虛偽不實的This is false這個公司啊跟我們市的這個自駕車的系統沒有任何契約關係也沒有參與結果我們能夠進軍國際市場是好事啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
324.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
337.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
拿在外國捏造的理由台灣政府還頒獎給他這就是天大的笑話結果拿了這個獎的關懷拿了什麼事情在國內拿了一堆補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
339.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
360.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
結果自駕車臺南的宗旨臺中的宗旨都拿了好幾千萬現在台鐵的這個行控4.0連你們自己運安會啊我掌握到的狀況炮聲隆隆啊對他的專業性可行性安全性跟現在的系統是不是重疊 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
361.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
388.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
能不能夠增加輔助的功能全面批判那我就有興趣啦如果是全面批判的話花了6千多萬到底是在扛誰之愷啊主席站起來了我尊重主席啊請主席會後從運安會專業的角度排鐵行控4.0到底有沒有用還是亂花錢提出運安會的書面報告可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
389.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
389.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
好,謝謝 |