| IVOD_ID |
151403 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151403 |
| 日期 |
2024-04-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-19-8 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-04-18T10:31:34+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-04-18T10:41:27+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:53 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445553b1cea53cb342604d5d2f84b0f7606c5dab72e655c1c94e54a6599b840bfc85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:31:34 - 10:41:27 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管：經濟作業基金、水資源作業基金、經濟特別收入基金、核能發電後端營運基金。(詢答)） |
| gazette.lineno |
716 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（10時31分）主席、各位委員。有請部長，還有水利署署長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：我們再請王部長、賴署長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
王部長美花：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長辛苦了！你辛苦很多年了。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
王部長美花：不會！應該的，覺得在這個位置、在這一段時間為國家做這些事情，非常有意義。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：非常謝謝你。自來水法第十二條之二第三項裡面特別提到水源保育與回饋費得納入相關基金管理，專供水質水量保護區內辦理水資源保育與環境生態保育基礎設施、居民公共福利回饋及受限土地補償之用。第三款也提到發放因水質水量保護區之劃設，土地受限制使用之土地所有權人或相關權益人補償金事項；還有原住民族地區租稅補助事項。在第十二條之二第四項也特別提到補償對象相關的發放標準，還要由經濟部跟原民會共同訂定，這個標準也都定了。自來水法第十二條之二第五項支用於第三項第一款至第五款，但原住民族鄉應從優考量。這個實施很多年了，請問署長，這實施很多年了，經費、基金也都有編列，你們在執行上往年都是幾月份會撥到地方政府，如果是要撥到地方政府的經費？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
賴署長建信：這個部分大概是第一季，有的單位會比較晚送，可能是第二季。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：第一季是什麼時候？幾月到幾月？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
賴署長建信：1到3月左右。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：1到3月，好。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
賴署長建信：基本上，針對這個問題我們也想出解決方法。第一個，事實上每年的用度大部分都是如常的。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：對！ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
賴署長建信：我們希望它前一年也許10月就先送過來，我們就預審，所以可以更快一點，也許在第一季的前一、兩個月就可以處理。像今年的話，我們也是這樣來處理，基本上在3月的部分，我們針對全國水質水量保護區的部分都已經核定了。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：是不是請署長會後把花蓮縣跟臺東縣的部分提供給本席？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
賴署長建信：沒有問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：也許你們同仁的作業說不定有漏掉的部分，尤其是花蓮縣跟臺東縣，請查一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
賴署長建信：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：謝謝。這個部分以前我都是質詢署長，上一次有特別質詢部長，因為部長是學法律的，而且這方面的權益應該要予以保障。內政部修訂土地法第十四條第一項各款規定不得私有土地劃定原則，這裡面就談到原住民申請原住民保留地，已奉核定，奉誰核定呢？是行政院喔！是行政院核定為增劃編保留地，這是第一個；核定之後，原民會、地方政府就把它設定耕作權、地上權或農育權。所以兩個條件，部長還有署長，第一個是行政院已經核定了，我現在談的有幾筆土地，行政院已經核定為增劃編原住民保留地，那個過程很長喔！是從鄉鎮公所一直到縣市政府、到中央行政院核定，然後核定之後，原民會、鄉鎮市公所再把它設定耕作權、地上權或農育權，應排除劃入不得私有土地範圍，這是內政部所訂之規定。所以本席提出這個老案子，吉安鄉海濱段678之1、678之2、679及680地號等這幾筆土地，經濟部水利署並沒有依水利法第八十三條規定公告為不得私有的區塊。我剛剛講的這幾筆土地都是行政院已經核定了，而且已經設定耕作權，所以請部長、署長這邊能夠趕快同意，因為它是依法處理，部長及署長可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
賴署長建信：上次委員問過這個問題，我也跟部長報告過我們通案的處理原則，至於這個個案的部分，因為它當時核定的時候，吉安鄉公所並沒有來徵詢我們相關的單位，現在的話，他們在實施行政院核定的過程裡面，就會徵詢我們的意見，我們就會依照水利法管理原則的意見呈示給它…… |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：不是，現在行政院已經核定了，我們現在…… |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
賴署長建信：因為它是在行水區裡面，這個比較特別，至於像秀姑巒溪或是其他溪的部分…… |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：署長，你回去查，整個區塊如果沒有一筆私有土地，我就認了，但非常多的私有土地都在那邊，好不好？你回去查，這樣可以吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
賴署長建信：那是限制使用，依照水利法做限制使用的。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：對，我們一樣，土地所有權給他，一樣限制使用，我們絕對是依法限制使用，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
賴署長建信：相關單位假如說是來文，我們會依法、依照程序來做回應。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我的意思是你先去查，這幾筆土地周邊、整個區塊到底有多少私有土地，這很容易查吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
賴署長建信：對，沒有問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：就麻煩署長。部長，會後請署長依法行政，這是法律，這符合法律，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
王部長美花：是！ |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：最後，還有時間，部長跟署長先回座。請台電總經理。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
主席：我們再請台電王總經理。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長請回座。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
王部長美花：是，謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：你們編列的核能發電後端營運基金，我覺得需要再考量，有的已經執行了，當然不得不執行，像蘭嶼地區居民生活環境與飲食習慣調查，其必要性我是質疑啦，不然你把當初調查的目的是什麼，提供給本席。另外就是推展費用，加強與外界宣導低放射性廢棄物處理及貯存業務，這些大家都瞭解了，這個已經幾十年了，要花這些錢還不如把這些錢直接給我們的蘭嶼鄉親，做這些宣導的費用，然後這裡你看看，睦鄰跟公益支出也提供去年的執行情形好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
王總經理耀庭：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我們要去檢視到底是不是確實對蘭嶼的鄉親有幫助。另外，核能發電後端營運基金這個部分，因為現在很多都要除役了，也沒有核四了，核一、核二、核三，也都沒有了，所以這個部分，你們還要去委託調查研究，花那麼多錢去委託調查研究，還要政策業務宣導，這個部分的必要性你提書面資料給我，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
王總經理耀庭：好，再給委員書面資料。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
主席：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
主席（鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員代）：請楊瓊瓔召委質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
412 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-19-8 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林岱樺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
邱議瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
呂玉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
李柏毅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
陳超明 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
陳冠廷 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
339 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-04-18 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1133101 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1133101_00011 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管：經濟作業基金、水資
源作業基金、經濟特別收入基金、核能發電後端營運基金（詢答） |
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1133101_00018 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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請做詢答。主席、各位委員、有請部長。我們再請王部長。還有水利署署長。好,蔡市長。部長辛苦了。是。 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
29.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
31.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
自然水法第12條第3項 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
49.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
69.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
特別提到水源保育與回饋費得納入基金管理然後專攻水質水量保護區內辦理水資源保育與環境生態保育基礎設施基民公共福利回饋及受限土地補償之用 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
70.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
96.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
然後這個第三款也提到發放因水質水量保護期之劃設土地受限制使用之土地所有前人或相關前一人補償事項還有原住民族第7租稅這個補助事項第12至2條第4項也特別提到補償對象這個相關的這些發放標準還要由延民會跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
98.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
122.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
由經濟部跟聯盟會共同定的,都定了,這個標準也都定了。《治安稅法》第12條第5項,自用於第3項第1款至第5款,但嚴重民主相應從優考量。這個實施很多年了,實施很多年了。現在就是署長, |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
123.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
142.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
請問署長這個實施很多年了經費基金也都有編列那你們在執行上以往年都是幾月份會撥到地方政府如果要撥到地方政府的經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
144.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
170.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
這個部分大概是第一季然後有些單位有的單位他會比較晚送那可能是第二季第一季是什麼時候?幾月到幾月?一到三月左右一到三月那基本上針對這個問題我們也想出解決方法第一個是說事實上每年的這個用度大部分都是如常的那我們希望說他前一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
172.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
191.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
前一年也許10月就先送過來我們就預審所以可以更快一點也許在第一季的前一兩個月就可以處理像今年的話我們也是這樣子來處理基本上在3月的部分我們針對全國水質水量保護區的部分都已經核定了 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
194.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
215.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
是不是請署長會後把那個花蓮縣跟台東縣的部分提供給本席沒有問題也許你們的同仁的作業有點說不定有漏掉的部分尤其是花蓮縣跟台東縣查一下好謝謝這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
220.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
249.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
上次有跟這個部長以前我都是質詢署長那上一次有特別質詢這個部長因為部長是寫法例的這個而且這方面的權益應該要以保障內政部修訂了這個土地法第14條第一項各款規定不得私有土地的劃定原則這裡面我們就談到這個原住民申請原住民保留地 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
251.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
278.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
已奉核定,誰奉誰核定呢?是行政院喔是行政院核定為徵兵保留地這第一個,核定之後, 原民會地方政府就把它設定耕作錢、地上錢或農業錢所以兩個條件,部長還有署長他第一個行政已經核定了,我現在談的有幾筆土地 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
281.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
301.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
行政已經合併徵花邊緣豬雲堡的地他那個過程很長是從鄉鎮公所一直到縣市政府到中央行政合併然後合併之後人民會鄉鎮市公所再把他設定耕作錢、地上錢或農業錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
302.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
319.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
然後就可以應排除劃入不得私有土地的範圍這是內政部所訂的一個規定所以本席這個老案子吉安鄉海濱段678-1、678-2、679及680-1這幾筆土地經濟部水利署並沒有依水利法83條公告為不得私有的區塊然後這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
333.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
362.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我剛講了這幾筆土地這幾筆土地都是行政院已經核定的而且已經設定跟做前所以這樣的要請這個部長請署長這邊能夠把他趕快就同意因為他就照依法來處理可以嗎部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
364.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
364.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
395.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
413.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這個比較特別,那至於說像秀姑蘭溪或是其他的溪的部分的話?這樣,署長齁,署長,你回去查齁,整個那個區塊,如果沒有一筆私有土地,我如果認了,非常多的私有土地都在那邊喔! |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
420.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
437.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
土地所有權給他一樣限制使用,我們絕對是依法限制使用,好不好?那相關單位假如說是來文,那話我們會依法,然後依照程序來做回應我的意思說你先去查,到底這個這幾筆土地的桌邊那個7塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
439.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
463.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
整個7塊到底有多少稅有土地這很容易查吧?對,沒有問題就麻煩署長部長會後請署長依法行政這是法律,這符合法律好不好?是最後還有時間,還有部長跟署長先回座臺電副總經理 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
476.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
493.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這個核能發電後端營運基金這個你們編列的這個我就覺得說是需要再考量當然有的已經執行了當然不得不執行像這個蘭嶼第7基民生活環境與飲食習慣調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
495.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
518.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這個它的必要性我是質疑啦不然你把那個到底當初調查的目的是什麼提供給本席另外就是說這個推展費用這個外界先導地方設新廢棄物處理及儲存業務這些大家都了解啦這個已經幾十年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
519.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
522.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
發言委員：鄭天財Sra Kacaw發言委員：鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
543.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
565.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我們要去檢視到底是不是確實對於蘭嶼的鄉親有幫助。另外這個核能發電後端營運基金這個部分,因為現在很多都要除役,也沒有核四、核一、核二、核三。 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
568.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
592.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
謝謝。 |