| IVOD_ID |
151312 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151312 |
| 日期 |
2024-04-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-26-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
12 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-04-17T12:19:06+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-04-17T12:34:04+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:58 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cfb4b12132f016279c83d8cea6949ac4b57f63d1b53b7532c5dab72e655c1c944c93c959780201415ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
劉建國 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:19:06 - 12:34:04 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-04-17T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、經濟部、行政院國家永續發展委員會就「限塑政策執行成效，及家戶與一般事業廢棄物減量之檢討與策進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【4月15日及17日二天一次會】） |
| gazette.lineno |
1089 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
劉委員建國：（12時19分）有請部長，謝謝主席。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
薛部長富盛：劉委員好！ |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
劉委員建國：部長好！本席在3月14日也在這個委員會請教過部長關於紙杯上的塑膠杯蓋這個問題，環境部在4月8號有回文給本辦，內容大致上這樣寫，我就不再贅述。我們看第二段倒數第二行，反正最後就是回答我說「再以循環杯借用系統補足民眾即興消費對於飲料杯使用的需求，以逐步減少一次用飲料杯對環境之影響」，那就是朝向使用循環杯，我沒有意見。既然部裡面的答復是這樣，我就要就這個循環杯來請教部長，現在所有循環杯的杯蓋都是可以回收再利用的嗎？還是能有一次性的塑膠杯蓋？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
薛部長富盛：就是一次性的塑膠，我們現在就是要思考請這個研發包括業者他們去思考取代性的材質，有業者提出用紙來取代這個一次性的塑膠這一塊，這個紙的部分就跟我們提到的吸管的概念一樣，用其他材質在便利性上就沒有像塑膠吸管一樣，所以這個杯蓋事實上也面臨到同樣的挑戰。當然，假如最後我們真的必須要強制執行的時候，我個人覺得可能也是必要，但是當然要有一個宣導期的這種概念。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
劉委員建國：我這邊有個資料給部長做參考，循環杯只要使用17次，它的碳排放量就可以小於紙杯，如果循環杯上仍然使用一次性的塑膠杯蓋，就必須使用到549次之後，碳排才會小於紙杯，那每次的借用就會增加一個，就是549、549一直堆疊上去，所以我才希望環境部要來正視這樣的問題，不論是一次性的紙杯或是循環杯，既然要減塑就要做得徹底一點，不要說杯蓋還是塑膠的，我想技術上如果有問題，經濟部今天也有在現場，這兩部應該大家可以合作。局長，這你可以幫忙來一起處理吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
連署長錦漳：我們一起來合作。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
劉委員建國：所以你們到現在都還沒有合作嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
連署長錦漳：有、有、有，我們其實有在研發了。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
劉委員建國：你們有在研發了？你都出馬了還研發這麼久？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
連署長錦漳：因為這個要看社會上的消費習慣。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
劉委員建國：這個還要看社會上的消費習慣？我們現在的政策就是要這樣走嘛，對不對？我們在推循環杯，然後這個杯蓋一直都是塑膠的，然後就會這樣一直堆疊，使用一次，549就堆疊一次，你們兩部共同研究這個多久了？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
連署長錦漳：好久了。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
劉委員建國：你還知道好久了！ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
連署長錦漳：上次推動的時候就有在合作了。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
劉委員建國：好「酒」就要再喝一杯！多久了嘛？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
賴署長瑩瑩：跟委員報告，今年這個循環杯的杯蓋已經有用這種重複性使用的杯蓋了。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
劉委員建國：比例呢？占比呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
賴署長瑩瑩：這個我們再請業者來加強。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
劉委員建國：所以你沒辦法講出比例嘛！你連占比都不清楚。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
薛部長富盛：因為才剛剛開始而已。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
劉委員建國：剛開始？什麼時候開始沒關係，讓我們知道一下嘛！讓委員會知道一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
賴署長瑩瑩：如果說用的是循環杯，那杯蓋就要用重複使用的這種杯蓋。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
劉委員建國：對，那什麼時候開始推？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
賴署長瑩瑩：今年就開始推了，因為循環杯的那個量，業者慢慢在拓展。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
劉委員建國：我知道你們「慢慢」在做拓展。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
薛部長富盛：我們積極來拓展，不要說…… |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
劉委員建國：你們再慢我也沒有意見，因為等一下我再講下去，你會覺得這個政策會慢到最終會往生。剛剛有委員特別提到在立院附近沒有半家使用循環杯嘛，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
薛部長富盛：推廣得還不夠。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
劉委員建國：我有幫你們做市場調查，3家中有1家，部長可以看一下，連地點我都可以指出來，在立院附近的3家有1家，同樣是7-11的系統。我現在要表達的是，環境部在112年就要求全臺的連鎖超商、速食店提供免費的循環杯借用，循環杯借用門市占比須達5%，對不對？那112年有達5%嗎？沒有！ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
賴署長瑩瑩：有。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
劉委員建國：確定有？OK！那113年要達10%，對不對？那確定會達到？ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
賴署長瑩瑩：會。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
劉委員建國：真的會？ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
賴署長瑩瑩：業者如果沒有達到會遭受到處罰。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
劉委員建國：是可能會遭受處罰還是會遭受處罰？ |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
賴署長瑩瑩：會遭受到處罰，因為是法令規定他要達成這個門市的比例。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
劉委員建國：那你們會怎麼處罰？你知道比例有多高嗎？我們簡單講一個7-11就好了，不行，要講兩家比較公平。龍頭超商是7-11，第二個是全家嘛，對不對？你們說112年的時候要達到5%，請問他們這兩家達到幾趴？有掌握數據嗎？我講一個背景資料給部長聽。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
薛部長富盛：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
劉委員建國：像我的母縣有20個鄉鎮，全國最大的超商龍頭7-11，在雲林縣只有3個鄉鎮4家門市有循環杯的租借服務；再看全家超商，8個鄉鎮有17家；星巴克門市有2家。我這麼講還沒有辦法凸顯這個占比的比例達到什麼程度，相信你們手中的資料應該會比我更精準。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][1] |
請部長再看另外一個表，這是民間民眾對考慮使用循環杯的調查，有意願的比例高達40%，算蠻高的，雖然沒有過半，但就一個推廣中的政策，民眾的意願算是還不錯的。但是提供循環杯的門市如果這麼少，光是找循環杯就讓人家卻步了，這個政策怎麼有辦法去達標？另外一點，在成功借到循環杯之後，因為每家循環杯的規格條件都不一樣，所以沒辦法統一歸還。媒體報導有民眾家住北市，上班地點在新北，一家三口都響應環境部的政策，卻因為跨縣市、跨連鎖業的循環杯無法流通，家中曾同時有4款7個循環杯，最終因為借用辦法不一和歸還不便，加上價格、材質等問題，而放棄使用循環杯，自備環保杯。這是近期的報導，這是一件事情。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][2] |
另外，環境部在去年9月26日的報導中這樣回答，各家業者有自己的清潔、物流、回收管道，由中央來整合不太容易，暫時不會考慮統一系統，但是如果透過提高價差來吸引消費者，業者認為難度高，主要是因為賣飲料的利潤不高，現行的價差壓力已經很大，現實面還是得考量，這個我尊重啦。綜上，我做個結論，循環杯是環境部推的政策，但這個政策的成敗生死好像就隨緣的樣子，環境部好像也沒有能力去左右，這種講法的意思是這樣吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
薛部長富盛：不會啦，委員，這個政策或許不能說如我們所預期，但總是我們在面對這個挑戰的時候會去找看看還有沒有合適的方法，我覺得也給大家一些時間，我們再來努力看看，我希望大家集思廣益，假如劉委員有更好的想法或建議，請不吝提供給我們參考。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
劉委員建國：好，我一定會想出好方法來跟部長建議。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][1] |
請部長再看下一張。統一規格不行，提高價差吸引消費者也不行，那衛生要行吧？你看這個循環杯，我們還有訂定要發新聞稿。 |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
薛部長富盛：是，給委員報告…… |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
劉委員建國：還有循環杯良好服務指引，使用循環杯的借用服務達到一致的水準，民眾才可以更安心來借用，這是我們發的新聞稿，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
薛部長富盛：是，這個我們之前有談過。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
劉委員建國：但是你看那個照片，這怎麼有辦法安心呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
薛部長富盛：是，大家看到這個大概就不太會想用循環杯，這也是我們面臨的…… |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
劉委員建國：今天剛好召委排這個案，所以我把這個事情提出來，因為我覺得這個政策真的快瀕臨失敗邊緣了，剛才署長說有罰嘛，對不對？確定有罰嗎？罰多少？罰幾家？ |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
賴署長瑩瑩：目前業者都有達到。 |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
劉委員建國：都有達到？ |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
賴署長瑩瑩：在杯子的部分…… |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
劉委員建國：你確定他們都有達到？ |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
賴署長瑩瑩：我們除了這個…… |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
劉委員建國：來，我講給你聽，因為時間關係。這是昨天我們助理到立院附近那3家的其中1家去找出來的，要借用這個循環杯是驚動到店長出來，店長一路尋找，尋找到最後倉庫找不到，我不曉得藏在哪裡，最後是在收銀台底下找出來，很不簡單才找到這個杯子，你等一下來看一下。我還幫你們找，立院附近3家7-11有1家有，就是這1家，真的有找到，只是不太好找，找到店長都要出面。我剛剛也用本縣的狀況分析給你們參考，實際的數字你們都會比我更清楚，我要講的是，在立法院周遭這麼多行政機關，包含臺大的校友會館經常有很多民間團體在舉辦相關的會議活動，也就是在人流這麼多的地方，但是3家7-11裡面只有1家有，而且要找出這個循環杯很不簡單，照理講，我找得出來，7-11應該對我獎勵才對。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][1] |
再者，你再看全家或是其他的超商系統，可能在附近，因為我已經找了7-11，其他的你們就自己去調查，應該也很難找得出來。如果你們去年是5%，今年要達到10%，我覺得那是很大的挑戰，所以在這個會期結束前是不是請部長趕快檢討，然後看怎麼去做政策上的修正。 |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
薛部長富盛：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
劉委員建國：另外一點，因為自備環保杯跟循環杯的政策是相輔相成，所以我才希望循環杯這個政策不要失敗。我們看環境部在推自備環保杯的政策上，在連鎖的飲料店、便利超商、速食店和超市，民眾自備環保杯都能折扣5元，也因此民眾自備環保杯由過去的6%已經提升到16%，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
薛部長富盛：沒錯，那個倒是有提升。 |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
劉委員建國：這很正向嘛，這是一個成功的政策，你們要不要擴大辦理？ |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
薛部長富盛：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
劉委員建國：要擴大辦理，也就是諸如連鎖早餐店、餐廳等，可能店內有提供紅茶、綠茶及豆漿等等，能不能也納入這個自備環保杯有折扣5元的政策？ |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
薛部長富盛：我們來考慮，因為環保杯是自己的，所以民眾對自己的東西比較安心，當然隨身攜帶有時候會造成他們一些困擾，不過我覺得這個的確應該是可以推動的方向，感覺上反而比循環杯有效，對啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
劉委員建國：我覺得部長今天答復我都有點虛虛的。最後，不僅自備環保杯，民間在去年自發性的外食自備餐盒優惠，這是民間自己發起的，已經串連六百多家業者，我剛剛進來，我看環境部也都有這樣響應，也都有以身作則，對不對？那很奇怪，你看立法院一天要吃多少個便當，只有環境部在做這個事情，經濟部有做嗎？你們連這個事情都沒辦法合作了，你們還有辦法合作什麼其他事情？所以你們要合作很久嘛！連便當餐盒你們就沒辦法合作了，連這個便當餐盒，環境部就沒辦法跟經濟部、跟其他部會合作了。環境部的人提供不鏽鋼便當盒，只有環境部在做而已，其他人都沒有在做，這個也不對吧？你們要想辦法啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
薛部長富盛：好，OK。 |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
劉委員建國：只有你們環境部這樣做而已，做到後來你們環境部也會埋怨，對不對？既然可以扣5塊，是不是經濟部也扣5塊，國發會也扣5塊，外交部也扣5塊，這樣環境部那個位置會變成非常的上位。 |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
薛部長富盛：好，謝謝劉委員的建議。 |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
劉委員建國：我期待環境部因為這個政策，未來成為中央部會的第一大部會，好嗎？我希望是不是先把這樣的預算規模或是效益評估做出來給委員會做參考，部長，可不可以？ |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
薛部長富盛：可以。 |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
劉委員建國：好，謝謝部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
薛部長富盛：謝謝劉委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
主席：謝謝劉委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[69][1] |
接下來請陳冠廷委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
422 |
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委員會-11-1-26-12 |
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王育敏 |
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陳菁徽 |
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陳昭姿 |
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林月琴 |
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廖偉翔 |
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盧縣一 |
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邱鎮軍 |
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涂權吉 |
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王正旭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
陳瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
牛煦庭 |
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鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
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林淑芬 |
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黃秀芳 |
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張雅琳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
洪申翰 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
劉建國 |
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陳冠廷 |
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楊曜 |
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蘇清泉 |
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341 |
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2024-04-17 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1132901 |
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1132901_00007 |
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立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄 |
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邀請環境部部長、經濟部、行政院國家永續發展委員會就「限塑政策執行成效，及家戶與一般事
業廢棄物減量之檢討與策進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢 |
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好,有請部長。謝謝主席。好,請部長。好,劉文好。部長好。部長本席在3月14日也在這個委員會來請教部長關於紙杯上的 |
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受加杯蓋的問題環境部在4月8日有回文給本辦內容大致上這樣寫我就不再追溯我們看後面第二段的導述第二條反正最後就是回答我說在與循環杯借用系統補足民眾及新消費對於飲料杯使用的需求以逐步減少一次用的飲料杯對環境之影響那就是朝向循環杯我沒有意見 |
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因為你提到既然不答覆我是這樣,那我就要就這個詢問杯來請教部長。現在所有的詢問杯的杯蓋都是可以回收再利用的嗎? |
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還是能有一次性的塑膠?就是一次性的塑膠,對啊所以我們現在就是說思考請研發包括業者他們去思考取代性的有業者提出來當然是用紙來取代一次性的塑膠的這一塊紙的這個部分就是跟我們提到吸管的概念也是一樣 |
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92.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
當然,假如最後我們真的必須要強制執行的時候我個人覺得可能也是必要但是當然要有一個宣導期的這種概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
109.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
135.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我這邊有個資料也給部長做參考啦你看那個循環杯只要使用17次嘛那碳排放就可以小一次杯啦如果循環杯上仍然是一次性的這個塑膠杯蓋必須使用到549次之後這個碳排才會小一次杯啦那每一次的借用就會增加一個嘛那就是堆疊上去嘛就549、549一直堆疊上去嘛所以我才希望說環境部要來正視這樣的問題啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
136.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
163.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
不論是一次性的紙杯或是循環杯竟然要減塑那就做的徹底一點不要留杯蓋還是塑膠我想技術上如果有問題經濟部有在現場這兩步應該大家可以 局長這你也當倒出力吧你們所以到現在都還沒有合作嗎有有有我們其實這我們有在研發了你們有在研發了你都出馬了還研發這麼久 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
165.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
190.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
因為這個要看那個社會上那個消費習慣這個跟社會上消費習慣現在我們就是政策就是要這樣走嘛對不對我們就推旋軟杯然後這個杯蓋一直都是塑膠的然後就會這樣啊就會一直堆疊五四九就堆疊就堆疊一次堆疊一次啊你們兩部共同研究這個不是好啦這麼好多久了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
193.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
218.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
好久了!你還知道好久了!好久就要再喝一杯啊!跟委員報告,我們今年這個循環杯杯蓋已經有用這種重複型的那個使用的那個杯蓋了。那比例勒?佔比勒?這個我們再來請業者來加強。所以你沒辦法講出比例嗎?你連佔比都不清楚嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
219.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
249.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
因為剛才開始而已?剛開始,什麼時候開始沒關係嘛,讓我知道一下嘛,讓委員知道一下如果說你用徐環杯,那杯蓋就是要用重複使用這種杯蓋?是,對,什麼時候開始推?今年就開始推了,因為徐環杯的那個量就是我們業者這樣慢慢在拓展我知道你們慢慢在做拓展我們積極來拓展,沒有什麼你們在慢啦,我也沒有意見啦,因為等一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
250.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
270.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
等一下我再講下去你會覺得這個政策會慢到最終會往生呢?剛剛有委員特別提到嘛齁說在立院附近沒有半家循環杯使用嘛對不對沒有啦我有幫你們做市場調查三家有一家啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
271.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
278.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我們現在112年環境部就要求全台的連鎖超商、速食店提供免費的循環杯借用那循環杯借用是佔比需達5%嗎?對不對?那112年有達5%嗎?沒有?有?確定有? |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
300.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
324.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
好,那113你要達10%嘛對不對?OK好,那確定會達到?會?真的會?那葉子有沒有達到會遭受到處罰?可能會遭受處罰?是可能還是會遭受處罰?會遭受到處罰,因為是蘇法令來規定他要達成這個門市的比例那你們會怎麼處罰?你知道比例有多高嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
326.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
327.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我講一個背景資料給部長聽 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
353.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
367.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這個像我的母縣我們是20鄉鎮在全國最大的超商西門龍頭雲林縣只有3個鄉鎮4家門市有旋轉杯的租借服務你看全家8鄉鎮有17個星巴克8家門市有2個 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
371.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
397.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我這麼講還沒有辦法去凸顯這一個占比的比例達到什麼程度那你們所中的資料應該會比我更精準嘛齁那你再看請問大家看另外一個表這是民間民眾對使用考慮循環杯的調查有意願的比例高達40%啦算蠻高的雖然沒有過半嘛對不對所以這個政策一個推廣中的政策那民眾的意願算是還不錯啦齁但是但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
398.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
423.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
提供循環杯的門市如果這麼少你光找循環杯就會讓人家卻步了你這個政策怎麼辦法去達標那另外一點你知道成功借到循環杯之後因為循環杯的每家規格條件都不一樣所以沒辦法統一歸還媒體有報導在這個在都會台北新北的某姓的民眾他們有一家三口 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
424.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
449.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
都要響應我們這個環境部的政策卻因為跨縣市、跨連鎖業的循環杯無法流通家中同時有4管7個循環杯最終因為金融半導不一、規管不便加上價格、材質等問題而放棄使用循環杯、自備環保杯這是近期的報導嗎?這是一件事情那另外環境部在去年的9月26號報導中這樣回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
452.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
466.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
各家業者有自己清潔物流回收管道由中央來整合不太容易暫時不會考慮統一系統但是如果透過提高價差來吸引消費者業者認為難度高主要因為是賣飲料的利潤不高現行的價差業力已經很大現實裡面還是得考量這個我尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
476.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
485.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
所以重上這結論循環背視環境部推政策但這個政策的成敗生死好像就隨緣的樣子環境部好像也沒有能力去左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
487.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
506.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
眾講我的意思是這樣嗎?這個劉文我想這個政策或許並不能說如我們所預期的但是總是我們是在面對這個挑戰的時候去找出看看有沒有還合適的方法我覺得也給大家一些時間我們再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
507.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
531.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
努力看看,我希望我們這個大家集思廣益,只要劉委員有更好的想法或建議也不定提供給我們參考。好,我一定會想出好話來跟部長建議。部長你在看下一張這個照片。我們想同意過的不行,提高價差性消費者也不行。那衛生要行吧,你看這個循環杯。 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
533.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
551.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我們還有訂訂齁,我們還發新聞稿捏。循環杯,良好服務指引,使用循環杯的借用服務已經達到一致的水準,民眾才可以更能安心來借用嘛,對不對?這是我們發的新聞稿嘛。剛剛你看那個照片,這怎麼有辦法去安心呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
552.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
572.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
大家一看到這個大概就不太會想要去用喜歡 這個也是我們命令你知道我今天為什麼剛好章偉排這個案所以我把這個事情提出來因為我覺得這個政策真的是在快快濒臨那個失敗的邊緣剛才市長講 署長講說有華 對不對確定有華嗎 華多少 華幾家 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
580.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
604.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
目前他們業者都有達到喔都有達到?都有達到?你確定他們都有達到?這個齁來我講給你聽因為時間關係這是昨天我們助理齁去我們立院附近那三家一家去找出來的你知道要借用這個循環杯驚動到店長出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
606.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
628.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
店長一路尋找,尋找到最後倉庫找不到,我不曉得藏在哪裡,最後是在那個收音台底下去找出來啦,很不簡單去找到這個啦,你怎麼在這看一看就對了啦,我還幫你們講喔,律院三家,戶界三家7有一家有啦,就是這一家,真的有找到,但是不太好找。 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
629.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
656.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
找到店長都要出面那我剛剛又用本縣的狀況又分析給你們做參考那11個數字你們都會比我更清楚那我只是講說在立法院這個周遭這麼多行政機關包含台大的校園會館也見長很多的民間團體在舉辦相關的會議的活動也就人有這麼多的地方一個7-11只有一家有三家有一家有但是要找出循環杯不簡單 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
658.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
682.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
不簡單,照理講我找得出來7-11應該對我獎勵才對應該是這樣另外一點你在看全家在看其他的超商系統可能在附近我去找7-11其他你們自己去調查應該也很難找得出來如果說你們去年是5% |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
683.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
687.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
你今天要達到10%我覺得那個是很大的挑戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
689.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
717.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這是一點啦齁所以我就請部長說這個會期結束前是不是趕快趕快檢討然後看怎麼去做這個政策上的一個修正嘛那另外一點因為你自備環保杯跟循環杯的政策是相無相成嘛所以我才希望循環杯這個政策你不要失敗齁你看齁環境部在推自備環保杯的政策上在連鎖的飲料店、便利超商、速食店還有這個超級市這個超市啦齁民眾自備環保杯都能折扣5元嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
718.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
743.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
也因此民眾自備環保費由過去的6%已經提升到16%嘛 對不對對很正向嘛這很正向那這個是一個成功的政策那你們要不要擴大辦理要擴大辦理就是說諸如連鎖早餐店啦餐廳啦他可能店內有提供紅茶啦綠茶啦豆漿等等等嘛對不對能不能也納入這個自備環保費有折扣的委員的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
744.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
762.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我們來考慮我覺得這個因為環保杯是自己的所以他對自己這個東西也比較安心當然就是說隨身攜帶有時候會造成他們一些困擾不過我覺得這個的確是應該是可以推動的方向反而比循環杯感覺上是比較有效 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
764.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
793.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
部長今天打呼我都有點虛虛的齁你看齁主席最後這個連結的啦齁這個不僅自備環保杯明天在去年自發性的這個外食自備餐盒優惠啦齁這明天自起發起的喔已經有串聯600多家的業者我剛剛進來我看我們環境部也都有這樣響應嘛也都有以身作者啦對不對那很奇怪你看立法院一天要吃多少個便當呢只有環境部在做這個事情經濟部有做嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
796.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
814.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
你們這個事情都沒辦法合作了你還有辦法合作什麼其他事情所以你們要合作很久嘛連這一個便當餐盒你們就沒辦法合作了連這個便當餐盒環境部就沒辦法跟經濟部跟其他部會合作了所以一天在立法院吃的不是那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
823.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
844.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
欸...那個...你們環境部提供那個叫什麼?北梯啊?鐵便當盒?他不叫鐵便當盒嗎?不銹鋼啦,不銹鋼便當盒,我們不銹鋼講不出來只有不在做而已,環境部在做,其他人都沒有在做,這個也不對吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
849.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
854.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
你們要想辦法啊。好。對啊。OK。你們這樣繼續把你們的環境部這樣做到,很快你們的環境部也會完蛋了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
856.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
879.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
對不對?我們靠五口你是不是?不然你就經濟部也靠五口給他啦!國安會也靠五口給他啦!外交部也靠五口給他啦!這樣環境部會變成非常的那個位置會變成非常的上位啦!好謝謝劉恩的建議我期待環境部因為這個政策未來成為我們中央部會的第一大部會啦! |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
880.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
880.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
謝謝劉委員 |