| IVOD_ID |
151225 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151225 |
| 日期 |
2024-04-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-1-15,19-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-04-17T09:44:23+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-04-17T09:52:43+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:08:20 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cfb4b12132f016275a232da4cb37e6a48f48eb7d2985ecdbc5dab72e655c1c94f6c8e88a0e872c475ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:44:23 - 09:52:43 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-04-17T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查委員高金素梅等19人擬具「原住民保留地禁伐補償條例第六條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具「原住民保留地禁伐補償條例第五條及第六條條文修正草案」案。三、審查委員盧縣一等19人擬具「原住民保留地禁伐補償條例第三條及第六條條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人擬具「原住民保留地禁伐補償條例第三條及第六條條文修正草案」案。【第四案如經院會復議，則不予審查】） |
| gazette.lineno |
207 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（9時44分）主席、各位委員。我們請鍾興華副主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請鍾興華副主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：鄭委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：Nga'ayho（你好）。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：Nga'ayho（你好）。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：Mali Mali Masalu（謝謝）；sabaw、sabaw（謝謝）。我們看今天原民會的報告，「大院原住民委員及各黨團自101年提案『原住民保留地禁伐補償及造林回饋條例草案』」，請問一下，原民會的同仁也可以協助，本院「原住民委員」是誰？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：當時是簡東明委員跟高金素梅委員，在101年的時候。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：要寫出來啊！尤其是簡東明委員，他已經到天上了，我們要感謝他、感恩他，要紀念他。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][1] |
「各黨團」是誰？哪個黨團？我來說，沒有啦！從101年的話就沒有了，如果是從91年開始，有啊！有國民黨黨團，有曾華德委員，有簡東明委員，所以這個敘述要明確。尤其是針對104年三讀通過的這個第一次成為法律，就只有簡東明立委提案，然後經濟委員會廖國棟主持了很多的會議協商。現在還在位的，本席之外，尤其是高金素梅召委當時在104年的時候，不好形容，就用「關鍵」兩個字，關鍵地去因應，然後就不得不三讀通過，這樣比較貼切。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][2] |
原民會的報告裡面，這個真的要修，我是建議召委，他們要修正，「爰於108年6月27日主動提出『原住民保留地……』」，說是原民會主動提出，事實上不是這樣，也不提其他的草案，也不是全部照原民會的草案通過啊！這裡面很多的，至少本席我開了3次協調，其實要增加這些，譬如相關國家公園的什麼、什麼區，特定水質、保育區的區，那個透過解釋就可以了，我開了3次請你們解釋，而你們都不願意解釋，後來才提了這個草案。當時本席、高金素梅、簡東明、孔文吉都有提草案，共提這個草案。你看這個是立法院的議事錄，立法院議事錄就好幾個版本，不是只有原民會，不要獨攬這個，這麼多人、大家的努力，這麼多的立委，包括邱志偉都有啊！鍾佳濱也有，對不對？所以不能說只有原民會，好不好？要據實陳述這個過程。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][3] |
今天的重點，本席跟其他提案的委員一樣，就是要提高禁伐補償的金額。本席提的是從114年起，因為還要編列預算，所以從114年起，每年每公頃新臺幣五萬元，未來要隨著物價指數調整。當然到底是5萬還是3萬，大家可以討論。剛才我在提案說明的時候也特別提到，82年，針對原住民保留地，以前是要點，臺灣省政府的時候透過一個要點，針對水庫、集水區，因為經費有限，所以只限縮在那個地方，後來法律通過了之後，那時候82年就是每公頃2萬塊，82年到現在多久了？104年通過之後，大家請參考這則105年的新聞，「桃園首創加碼補助原住民保留地禁伐補償」，原民會知道嗎？知道嘛！對嘛！這個要把它列出來，當時是誰呢？是鄭文燦市長、現在的行政院副院長。為什麼只有桃園加碼？他當了副院長，應該要全體適用啊！4萬塊，只有桃園，其他縣市都沒有，所以要統一！所以我們要修法啊！要把它一致性，何況從臺灣省政府時代，82年到現在，2萬塊到現在，所以這個部分要加碼、要增加，這是符合的，我們沒有隨便加啊！不是隨意加的。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][4] |
所以這個部分，原民會作為一個主管機關，要寫得詳細，讓所有的委員，尤其是編預算的主管機關來支持，好不好？副主委，以後要寫詳細，你有了資訊，不能放在口袋裡面，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：是，謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：這個部分，到底錢怎麼來，除了原民會編公務預算之外，我們看禁伐補償條例第一條，「因應氣候變遷」，原民會的報告裡面，已經沒有錢可以編了；氣候變遷因應法第五條規定，「該區域內新增碳匯之相關權益應與原住民族共享」，上一回為什麼也要請環境部來，就是他們也要支出，你們要去跟他們要這個經費，因為原住民族在臺灣這塊土地上，森林都是我們保護的，法律上氣候變遷因應法也明定，所以這些碳匯所收的費用也要納入原住民保留地的禁伐補償，不要擔心這個經費。就原住民族委員會而言，這個部分這裡面都有條文，你們就要仔細地去看，然後好好地協調相關的這些，尤其是環境部、尤其是主計總處。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：是，跟委員報告，這個目前還在跨部會協商當中。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：對，所以嘛！不要直接說沒有錢，好不好？加油！ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
主席：非常謝謝鄭天財委員的質詢，也謝謝鍾副主委。希望環境部能夠參考，主計總處也參考一下剛剛鄭天財委員所提到的部分，謝謝你們。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][1] |
繼續請牛煦庭委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
64 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
聯席會議-11-1-15,19-1 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
高金素梅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
盧縣一 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
黃捷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
麥玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
張宏陸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
許宇甄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
蘇巧慧 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
王美惠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
黃建賓 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
李柏毅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
吳琪銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
徐欣瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
林岱樺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
張智倫 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
黃仁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[26] |
丁學忠 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
1 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-04-17 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1132901 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1132901_00002 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、審查委員高金素梅等19人擬具「原住民保留地禁伐補償條例第六條條文修正草案」案；二、
審查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等18人擬具「原住民保留地禁伐補償條例第五條及第六條條文修正草
案」案；三、審查委員盧縣一等19人擬具「原住民保留地禁伐補償條例第三條及第六條條文修正
草案」案；四、審查委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等16人擬具「原住民保留地禁伐補償條例
第三條及第六條條文修正草案」案 |
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9.234 |
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主席、各位委員,我們請鍾新華副主委。請鍾新華副主委。我們看今天人民會的報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
25.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
45.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
大縣原住民委員及各黨團至101年提案原住民保留地禁伐補償及照齡回饋條例草案。請問一下,這個委員會的同仁也可以協助。本縣委員,原住民委員是誰? |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
50.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
76.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
當時是簡東明委員跟高金素梅委員在101年的時候要寫出來啊,尤其是簡東明委員他已經到天上了我們要感謝他、感恩他、要紀念他好,各黨團是誰?哪個黨團?好,我來說沒有啦從101年的話就沒有啊如果是從 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
77.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
102.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
第九十一年開始有鄭華德委員、簡東明委員。所以這個敘述要明確,尤其是針對104年三讀通過的這個第一次成為法例,就只有簡東明立委提案,然後經濟委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
104.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
130.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員高金素梅等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案案。六、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案案。七、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案案。八、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第6條條文修正草案案。九 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
135.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
153.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
審查委員高金素梅等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。六、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。五、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。六、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具第六條條文修正草案案。六、審查委員鄭天財Sra K |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
166.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
190.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
這個裏面很多的至少我本席我開了三次協調其實要增加這些比如說相關的國家公園的區域什麼什麼區域特定水池保護區的區域那個透過解釋就可以了我開了三次請你們解釋你們都不願意解釋後來才提了這個草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
193.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
219.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
當時本席、高金素梅、簡東明、孔文吉都要提草案,共提這個草案。你看這個,這個是立法院的議事錄,立法院的議事錄就好幾個版本,不是只有演民會,不要獨攬這個,大家都這麼多人的努力,這麼多的立委,包括邱志偉都有啊,鍾嘉斌也有啊, |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
220.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
245.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
及第六條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具第六條條文修正草案。五、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具第六條條文修正草案。六、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具第六條條文修正草案。七、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具第六條條文修正草案。八、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具第六條條文修正草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
249.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
277.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
未來要隨著物價指數到底是五萬還是三萬大家可以討論我來說剛才我在提案說明的時候也特別提到82年原住民保留地以前是要點臺灣省政府的時候透過一個要點正對水庫集水期因為經費有限所以只限收在那個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
278.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
289.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
後來法例通過了之後那時候82年了就是每公頃2萬塊啊82年到現在多久了好104年通過之後104年通過之後大家請參考這個台灣桃園的話這是105年的新聞桃園所創加碼補助原住民保留地禁伐補償 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
308.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
325.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
立法院第11屆第1次聯席會議第1次聯席會議第2次聯席會議第3次聯席會議第4次聯席會議第5次聯席會議第6次聯席會議第7次聯席會議第8次聯席會議第8次聯席會議第9次聯席會議第10次聯席會議第11次聯席會議第12次聯席會議第12次聯席會議第13次聯席會議第14次聯席會議第13次聯席會議第14次聯席會議第14次聯席會議第15次聯席會議第16次聯席會議第17次聯席會議第18次聯席會議第18次聯席會議第19次聯席會議第19次聯席會議第 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
338.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
355.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
一致性和況從82年到現在台灣省政府時代82年到現在兩萬塊到現在所以這個部分所以要加碼要增加這是符合我們也隨便加不是隨意加的 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
359.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
363.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
及第六條條文修正草案案。四、審查委員盧縣一等19人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
388.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
417.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
到底錢怎麼來,除了編移民會編公務預算之外我們看禁法補償條例的第一條因應氣候變遷因應氣候變遷所以呢,移民會的報告裡面錢已經沒有錢可以編了氣候變遷因應法第五條規定該期內新增碳匯值相關協議應與原住民族共享 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
418.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
446.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
稍為請環境部也要來,就是他們也要去支出,你們要去跟他要這個經費,因為我們臺灣的原住民族在臺灣這塊土地上,森林都是我們保護的,所以法律氣候變遷因應法也明定,所以這些碳費所說的這些費用也要納入到 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
447.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
451.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
禁伐補償條例第六條條例第七條條例第八條條例第八條條例第八條條例第八條條例第八條條例第八條條例第八條條例第八條條例第八條條例第八條條例第八條條例第八條條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
474.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
489.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
非常謝謝鄭天財委員的質詢也謝謝中副主委謝謝希望環境部也能夠參考然後組織總署也能夠參考一下剛剛鄭天財委員所提到的部分謝謝你們謝謝繼續我們請農徐廷委員質詢 |