| IVOD_ID |
150981 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150981 |
| 日期 |
2024-04-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
公聽會-2024040373 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
「如何落實國會調查／聽證權以有效監督行政機關，並避免侵犯人民自由／隱私權」公聽會 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
公聽會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-04-10T11:25:46+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-04-10T11:32:52+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:07:06 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/871d5246fb87948e3ec89949aeefe7525ec1f70688dcd386f8ba9b0039caa7a6a86133156bd620685ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鍾佳濱 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:25:46 - 11:32:52 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-04-10T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會公聽會（事由：「如何落實國會調查／聽證權以有效監督行政機關，並避免侵犯人民自由／隱私權」公聽會） |
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鍾佳濱委員 |
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批評國民黨各委員的版本下一個註腳叫做三不亦沒有哪三不第一中文不好第二憲法不好第三記錄不好第四沒有人民做主的素養為什麼這麼說呢我們聽到剛剛陳律師跟前面幾位都提到藐視法庭罪這個概念今天沒有人反對建權國會的調查權或擴充為聽證權這是必要的 |
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但是為了健全或擴充聽證權或調查權加了個藐視國會罪來加以強制就有問題了什麼是藐視中文的藐視翻白眼是不是藐視街邊的小混混眼神不對叫糾事打架算不算藐視藐視是一個非常主觀的由單方面判斷的一個行為放到法律上有沒有呢我們看到很多西方的國家用我們翻成藐視國會罪有藐視法庭罪 |
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但是來到台灣用中文的社會有沒有聽過藐視法庭罪嗎?有嗎?沒有,我們頂多是法院組織法第95條有給予審判人員在法庭上維持秩序的權利某個程度上是法庭的警察權就跟國會的議長在國會的殿堂的問政他有一個警察權將一些滋擾異常問事的人員把他驅逐這樣的行為就這樣而已 |
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所以 如果你說把藐視這兩個字改成防礙調查權我們覺得這個好一點或者說根據4至585號的規定說不履行協助調查之義務 這也可以但是你不要說藐視嘛 |
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藐視就是剛剛陳律師說的一個不確定的抽象的一個概念用來作為聽證權或調查權的一個強制力的基礎這個中文實在有待商榷別忘了在2014年司法院也曾經提出要將我們法院主治法95條把它以藐視法庭的刑責擴散到一年 |
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有沒有過沒有過阿連司法人員都覺得藐視法庭這麼天大地大的事情他們都覺得不宜把三個月提他一年阿好第二個憲法不好說憲法不好還是比較不好意思是高中的公民社會課程教的不好或是學的不好 |
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181.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我們看到國民黨的同僚在這段會議期間提出了國會改革的大旗講什麼講要對於監察院效能不彰怠惰欸他說要批評欸對於我們在立法院請司法院的人員來這裡欸他把他當作行政院的官員在質詢欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
183.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
199.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
諸多種種忘記了到底是三權分立還是五權分立不管你主張什麼如果你的版本認為國會有調查權有聽證權那你要注意啊你不要去侵犯你誓死要維護的監察權啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
200.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
227.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
民進黨向來主張就是把監察權拿掉回歸到三權分立國民黨不能得你的版本一方面堅持五權分立另一方面又要去侵犯監察院的調查權甚至我們目前的藐視國會你可以對於司法院的人來你可以對他藐視國會嗎你認為他藐視國會請問他如果是公務員按照現在的版本要移送刑法回歸到法院判決 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
228.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
240.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那這是什麼三權分立還是五權分立 完全看不懂第三個 記錄不好 什麼記錄不好國民黨過去在相關的國會職權行使的記錄不良啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
241.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
268.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
有沒有看到外交國防委員會的秘密會議當中秘密會議的內容外泄損及到誰的權利在最近的一個案例損及到韓國公民的權益因為在這個外泄的資料當中很清楚的看到韓國的公民他協助東華民國的海軍去發展我們必要的國造潛艇把這樣的技術似乎有違反到韓國的法律移轉給台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
271.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
290.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
這還是去因為我們的調查我們的秘密會議我們介入出來的文件資料外洩之後造成了他方外國公民的權利受損可能大家覺得還是無所謂如果是本國公民的權利受損你覺得如何呢過去的這些紀錄所以剛剛有一位教授他說到呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
292.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
304.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
國會要擴權或要主張權力要先自律權力的行使必須先來自於自律你必須對於治理要求要高啊秘密會能不能落實秘密會能不能拒絕簽據保密協定 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
308.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
335.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
國會如果自己不做只依靠言論自由只依靠言論免責權來保護自己包括什麼翻白眼、鼻歇不雅的動作都認為這是你的表意自由你的言論自由你的對外言論不負責的自由這樣子你的調查對象會尊重你嗎所以最後我們談一個什麼沒有人民做主的素養簡單講就是沒有民主素養今天大家談的國會要行使監督對象是誰行政院向立法院負責我們要監督的是行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
336.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
355.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我們要調查的是官員你把人民調進來幹嘛呢還要用刑法事後所以忽略了作為一個憲政機構我們立法院對應的是行政院我們對應的是國家不同憲政機關彼此的分權跟制衡 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
356.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
376.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
不是對於我們國家主體的人民去施以調查跟克責當然在其他國家例子人民有配合協助調查的義務這個義務要怎麼去克以強制的責任這個可以討論對於官員在因應著立法委員質詢的時候他的態度那是一個另外一個政治的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
377.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
394.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
地方議會做得很好啊地方議會只要議員諮詢行政首長他覺得不滿意請出議場請出議場有要對他施以行政罰款嗎有要對要克以他的刑責嗎他就算說的再讓你議員不滿意議會做的決定就是請議長決定將該官員請出議場就這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
398.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
424.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
如果未來國會要落實我們的經證權或調查權千萬千萬藐視國會這個中文不要再用了你可以說妨礙調查妨礙調查有行政法法案而且還要基於院會決議這就是民主進步黨的版本我們希望今天的公聽會能夠向社會大眾說明我們支持健全國會的聽證調查權但是不得以去侵犯人民的自由或隱私權為代價以上 |