| IVOD_ID |
150835 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150835 |
| 日期 |
2024-04-02 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-1-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期第7次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院第11屆第1會期第7次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-04-02T09:45:00+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-04-02T10:01:15+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:16:15 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/724864d01d76e7fc08f91a493cf5f034da4f99791438ae9df8ba9b0039caa7a6b72eae049c66d9735ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張啓楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:45:00 - 10:01:15 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-04-02T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第1會期第7次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院國民黨黨團，為避免物價因電價調漲，民生痛苦指數飆升，因此反對台電公司調漲電價，建請院會作成決議：立即停止調漲電價，並要求行政院責成相關部會即刻檢討現行能源政策並提出因應對策與配套措施，以兼顧人民生計、維持供電穩定及台電公司之正常營運。是否有當？請公決案等3案。（3月29日）
二、審計長列席報告中華民國111年度中央政府總決算審核報告等案審核經過並備諮詢。（4月2日）
三、3月29日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。
四、4月2日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。） |
| gazette.lineno |
157 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
張委員啓楷：（9時45分）謝謝主席，請審計長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：麻煩再請審計長備詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：張委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
張委員啓楷：審計長你好，我們先來談監察院長陳菊的「菊手之勞，大可不必」，我先請教你，陳菊要你們審計部設發言人，你照辦了嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：我們本來就有發言人。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
張委員啓楷：你是說陳菊不知道你們有發言人，叫你設發言人嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：應該知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
張委員啓楷：應該知道，為什麼叫你們設發言人？這段時間你們每次提出來的決算報告，立法院都是拍手叫好的啊！很好地監督了政府的決算，說是什麼？揭弊的祕笈、揭弊的神書，對不對？所以對你們很肯定啊！可是相對地，陳菊陳院長叫你要設發言人、要出來幫忙辯護，他不曉得那個決算報告是你們寫的嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：因為…… |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
張委員啓楷：你們幫民脂民膏看緊了荷包，為什麼叫你們出來否定自己的講法呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：媒體因為對於我們的審計有不同的解讀，所以他是善意提醒。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
張委員啓楷：他是善意？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：嗯，善意。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
張委員啓楷：他不曉得政治力跟政黨不能夠介入獨立的審計權嗎？這不是干預了…… |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：他是…… |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
張委員啓楷：他是一個民主前輩，陳菊是臺灣民主的一個前輩，他怎麼可以干預獨立的審計權呢？審計長，我給你看，這個你應該比我熟悉啊！審計法第十條怎麼說？「審計人員依法獨立行使其審計職權，不受干涉。」對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：對的。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
張委員啓楷：對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：嗯。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
張委員啓楷：為了怕監察院跟審計部權責不分，審計權受到干擾，監察院與審計部權責劃分原則第八點怎麼寫？明明確確寫著「監察委員不得影響審計人員獨立行使審計權。」是不是這樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
張委員啓楷：所以任何的監察委員跟陳菊，怎麼可以去干涉你們？怎麼可以政治力，或者要你們設什麼發言人呢？要你們出來講自己已經提出的這個結算報告呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：他是善意提醒，希望我們有些過度解讀的地方，能夠對外有一個說明。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
張委員啓楷：審計長，我知道你人比較善良，你一直在幫他講話，可是你一定要捍衛所有審計人員的獨立行使職權，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
張委員啓楷：這段時間立法院跟媒體對你們是非常肯定的，不是只有揭弊的秘笈這個事情而已，你們幫人民看緊了荷包，幫人民省了很多的錢，人民是感謝你的，人民會挺住你，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
張委員啓楷：不只捍衛審計部自己的權限，審計人員是優秀的，一定要捍衛他們的獨立行使職權跟他們的專業。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
張委員啓楷：好，接下來我們輕鬆一點。我們幫主席立法院院長韓國瑜叫屈一下，審計長知道現在韓國瑜韓院長辦公的地方，是在以前北二女的舊教室嗎？你知道嘛！現在的立法院以前就是北二女，以前有北一女，對不對？中山女高現在叫北二女，其實它以前叫做北三女，北二女在哪裡？就是現在大家出了議場看到立法院的這個馬蹄形，以前是北二女的學生上課的地方，所以我們韓國瑜韓院長，包括周萬來、所有的工作人員，他們是在舊教室，以前女校的這個教室裡面辦公，可是相對地，你看唐鳳在哪裡上班？他跑去地后新光大樓上班，這個落差是不是非常大？事實上不是只有數位發展部，目前為止，NCC有一些辦公室，工程會也都租在……，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
張委員啓楷：今天本席做個倡議，有沒有可能現在在外面租辦公室的，我全面清查過，差不多18億左右，這些在外面租辦公室的，想辦法去找一個中繼的辦公室，找一個像荒廢或者閒置的學校搬進去，以後每年我們至少省十幾億租金，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
張委員啓楷：我們一起努力，把這個錢省下來，為人民看緊荷包，把民脂民膏省下來。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：好，謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
張委員啓楷：審計長，我們詳細地來看發生的問題，你看數發部，我們回到數發部的四個大問題，剛剛講我們立法院用以前北二女的教室，可是數發部去找了地后、臺北市租金第二高的新光大樓，它的租金太貴。現在本席去追，又發現一個新的問題了，它本來一年半對不對？用了多少錢，審計長你還記得嗎？7,000萬對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
張委員啓楷：7,000萬表示它一年用4,667萬，結果我最新追查到了，它今年元月份又去簽了一個6年3億的租金。審計長，如果3億的話用買的就好了，為什麼還要去租？是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
張委員啓楷：3億都可以在新北市很多地方買新房子了，幹嘛拿去租？這是第一個大問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][1] |
第二個，之前4,667萬已經太多了，現在一年又多花了人民納稅錢333萬，這個要不要處理？ |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：這個我們還是因為……其實你要租房子，要經過國產署，看看有沒有閒置的房地，我們現在的閒置房地還是非常多啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
張委員啓楷：審計長，那我要替數位部唐鳳說一下話，你看現在有人去開槍，事實上任何的暴力我們都是譴責的，暴力不能夠解決問題，老實講，數發部跟唐鳳去租地后新光大樓這麼貴的房子，中央也有責任啊！主計處還有你剛剛講的國有財產局，它應該全面去清查啊！像現在很好啊！現在舊的財政部大樓，新的搬出去之後，舊的整修完之後、補強完之後，國產署現在在裡面辦公啊！就省了很多錢，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[41][1] |
我剛剛講的荒廢的學校、退場的學校，趕快去找，如果當初中央是這樣幫數發部，數發部就不會發生這個問題，所以我們等一下有一個重要責任，我們要幫數發部找新家。我去追了這個問題，後來唐鳳跟數發部也跟本席講他們的合約裡面訂了一條，只要他們有找到合適、租金比較低廉的地方，或者有中繼的地方，半年前跟新光大樓講，他們就可以搬出去，所以我們來努力幫被罵得臭頭的數位發展部找新家，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
張委員啓楷：數發部現在還有一個大的問題，我跟大家討論一下，它之前說要搬了，溝通得不好，所以臺北市本來花1.8億蓋了南門中繼市場，對不對？結果你看花了1.8億，然後用了4年，新的、美輪美奐的被拆掉了，我覺得這個行政責任，當初溝通不良，這個審計部應該也要去追一下，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[43][1] |
最嚴重的問題來了，我給大家看一下，數位發展部現在最嚴重的問題是什麼地方？它的租金以外，就是它的裝潢了，你知道它的公設多少嗎？它去租這個新光大樓的公設多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：42%。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
張委員啓楷：42%，它等於只有用58%啊！結果唐鳳還拍了片說什麼它的裝潢一坪才2萬塊，你應該扣掉42%對不對？我們看一下如果實際的是多少錢，本來唐鳳拍片說是不到2萬塊，事實上扣掉42%以後，它實際裝潢費用一坪超過4萬塊，這會不會太浪費人民的民脂民膏了？ |
| gazette.blocks[45][1] |
本席去清查了113年度所有在外面租用辦公室的單位，我們來看一下，數位發展部才排第6，被罵得半死的數位發展部才排第6啊！第一個是哪裡？外交部，當然這九億五千多萬大部分是在外面租辦公室，對不對？那個是外館嘛！那就要買啊！對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
張委員啓楷：應該要買啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：我們有要求它。 |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
張委員啓楷：所以審計部有要求嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：有要求。 |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
張委員啓楷：想辦法把九億多在外館的這個錢省下來，你買了以後，外交如果都很順，當然一直用，租金就省下來嘛！對不對？第二個，哪天要賣還是賺錢啊！OK，所以外館的這部分，很清楚地就要趕快買。你看本席去查泰國辦事處，108年買了，到113年，現在已經省一億多了，所以這九億多怎麼省下來，審計部也有責任督促他們趕快買，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
張委員啓楷：OK，我們看國內的，國內的將近十億，到底要怎麼省下來？本席很明確的倡議，數位發展部已經講了只要給它合適的中繼站，半年前提出來之後它就可以搬進去，所以我們趕快幫它找新家。到哪邊找新家？有兩個方法，第一個，舊的財政部大樓已經補強了，可以再用10年，對不對？那現在是國產署…… |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：對。國產署有…… |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
張委員啓楷：國產署在裡面，對不對！ |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：嗯。 |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
張委員啓楷：如果早一點的話，就給數位部或給其他單位用，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
張委員啓楷：第二個，全面清查現在有哪些學校是荒廢的，學立法院，不要只有我們院長在學校辦公，以後中央部會包括NCC、工程會，甚至消防署這些在外面租辦公室的，搬到學校去辦公，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：我們有清一下，也有這樣的空間。 |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
張委員啓楷：透過這樣的努力，我們一年至少可以省10億租金，這是民脂民膏，我們一起努力。 |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
張委員啓楷：接下來要談一個特別預算的問題，剛才吳思瑤，民進黨的立委特別提到這個問題，我覺得他可能沒有好好看你們的決算報告，也沒有看立法院的公報吧？審計長，你們每一年的審計報告裡面提了很多特別預算浮濫的事情啊！特別是你剛才講的，都沒有計畫就亂編錢、亂花錢啊！他怎麼可以要求預算法第八十三條第四款不能修呢？第一個，前面三款已經夠用了，戰爭或者是緊急事情，或者重大災變，第四條本身就是空白授權嘛，第四條本來就要刪掉！不只是審計部的審查報告裡面很多的例子清清楚楚，民進黨從以前的財經專家彭百顯、許添財，阿扁、陳水扁當立委的時候，到現在的柯建銘，很多民進黨的立法委員都提過要修掉這第四款啊，為什麼第四款不拿掉呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[63][1] |
我們明確來看，你看特別預算現在已經變成什麼了？是吞噬民脂民膏最大黑洞、國債債臺高築最大元兇。我去做了一個統計，從李登輝到蔡英文四任總統執政，我們現在的債務六兆多對不對？六兆二千多億，其中將近4兆都是透過特別預算舉債來的，特別是剛講的第四款空白授權最嚴重了，也就是你們常常提出來有很多缺失的。我們再看一下，蔡英文任內提的特別預算，是從蔣中正到蔣經國的歷任所有總統當中最多的，這沒有浮濫的問題嗎？光是決算報告裡面我看到很多例子，前瞻基礎建設條例裡面，本來軌道建設經費編多少，4,200億對不對？結果後來經過審計部的報告、經過立法委員去追，降到多少？降到1,903億，會不會太離譜？基隆輕軌更離譜了，蔡英文去跟基隆說要編80億的基隆輕軌，2020年可以通車，結果到了2023年都沒做跳票了，從輕軌變成做捷運要452億，後來又增加到多少？697億，這個有計畫嗎？審計長剛才在回答吳思瑤的時候，你有特別講到這個重點，對不對？依你的專業是說，要有計畫才會有預算嘛，現在不是啊！現在特別預算就是被濫用啊！亂丟出來，亂編又亂花。你看屏鵝公路本來編多少？48.8億，一下增暴增到77.92億。前鎮漁港要3,000萬，給81億，這個增加了幾百倍啊！新竹棒球場，你看天母棒球場整修才用了8,000萬，新竹棒球場一下用了12億，還弊案不斷。 |
| gazette.blocks[63][2] |
這個特別預算，預算法八十三條第四款是不是真的要刪掉？審計長，前面三款已經夠用了，對不對？後面就是一個空白授權嘛！它嚴重在什麼地方？每一次這個法提出來以後都弄一個特別條例，我們對預算都這麼熟悉的人，本來公共債務跟財政紀律有兩條非常重要的紅線，第一條是公債法的第五條第七項，就是所謂的債務流量，結果你看到，中央總預算跟特別預算每年舉債額度不得超過其總額的百分之十五，他先把這條紅線拿掉了，不嚴守財政紀律；第二條是排除預算法第二十三條，第二十三條說什麼？不能夠拿舉債跟賒借作為經常性的支出對不對？結果現在每一年都用了一堆舉債方式，就是因為用了特別預算嘛！所以本席非常明確地要求。 |
| gazette.blocks[63][3] |
來，我們看最後一張簡報，刪除特別預算第八十三條第四款的空白授權，就是「不定期或數年一次之重大政事」，而且要先有計畫才有預算，可行性評估一定要合理可用，另外再強調一點，不要影響到地方的財政，可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：我尊重第二點、第三點，還有第四點。 |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
張委員啓楷：所以審計長，第一個，我們把天價租辦公室那10億省下來；第二個，特別預算空白授權要想辦法補起來，不要變成人民納稅錢一直漏出去，每一年漏掉一、兩千億，對不起民眾！好不好？我們共同來努力。 |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
陳審計長瑞敏：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
張委員啓楷：謝謝審計長。 |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
主席：謝謝張委員啓楷的詢問，也謝謝陳審記長的備詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[68][1] |
接下來請登記第4號陳委員培瑜詢問。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
116 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
院會-11-1-7 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
韓國瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
吳思瑤 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
陳培瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
林思銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
許宇甄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
范雲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
洪申翰 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
羅美玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
張智倫 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
53 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-04-02 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1131801 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1131801_00003 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期第7次會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
討論事項
審計長列席報告「中華民國111年度中央政府總決算暨附屬單位決算及綜計表審核報告」、「中
央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第3期特別決算審核報告（中華民國110年度至111年度）」、「中央政
府嚴重特殊傳染性肺炎防治及紓困振興特別決算審核報告（中華民國109年1月15日至112年6月30
日）」審核經過並備諮詢－詢答完畢－ |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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我們先來談監察院長陳菊的舉手之勞大可不必陳菊的舉手之勞大可不必 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
61.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
81.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
我先請教你陳菊說叫你們新界部會設發言人你照辦了嗎我們本來就有發言人你是說陳菊不知道你們有發言人叫你設發言人嗎應該知道應該知道啊為什麼叫你們設發言人這段時間你們每次提出來的這個決算報告一晚都是拍手叫好的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
82.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
110.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
很好的監督政府的這個決算說是什麼接壁的這個秘籍對不對接壁的這個神書所以對你們很肯定啊可是相對的陳菊、陳院長說叫你要設發言人要出來幫忙辯護他不曉得那個決定報告是你們寫的嗎你們幫民主民高勘緊了荷包為什麼叫你們出來否定自己的講法呢沒提啊因為對於我們的損盡啊有不同的解讀所以他是善意提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
111.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
140.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
他是善意善意提前他不曉得政治力跟政黨不能夠介入獨立的這個審計權嗎這不是干涉了他是個民主前輩陳菊是個台灣民主的前輩他怎麼可以干涉獨立的這個審計權啊先給你 我給你看這個你應該比我熟悉啊審計法第10條怎麼說審計人員依法獨立行使其審計職權不受干涉 對不對對了對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
142.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
163.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
為了怕監察院跟審計部前者不分﹐受到﹐審計前受到干擾﹐監察院跟審計部的前責發明原則﹐明明確確寫著﹐監察委員不得影響審計人員﹐獨立行使審計前﹐是否這樣?是所以任何的監察委員﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
164.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
181.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
跟陳菊他怎麼可以去干涉你們怎麼可以政治力或者要你們設什麼發言人呢?要你們出來講自己已經提出的這個結算報告呢?他是善意提醒希望我們有些各度解讀的地方啊能夠對外有一個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
182.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
209.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
好 辛苦你 我知道你人比較閒聊你一直在幫他講話可是你要捍衛我們所有審計人員這個獨立好不好好這段時間立法院跟媒體對你們是非常肯定的不是只有JB的這個JB的這個密集這個事情而已你們幫人民勘緊了荷包幫人民省了很多的錢人民是感謝你的人民會挺住你好不好謝謝不只捍衛自己審計部的前線我們的審計人員是優秀的一定捍衛他們獨立行使之前跟他們專練好 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
212.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
230.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
接下來我們輕鬆一點接下來我們幫我們的主席我們的女法院議員韓國瑜教訓一下新規定你知道現在我們韓國瑜韓院長辦公的所在是在一間舊北俄尼的舊教室嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
233.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
255.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
你知道嗎?現在日本人以前就是北二女以前有北一女對不對中三女高現在叫北二女其實她以前叫北三女北二女在哪裡?現在大家出來除了議場看到的立法院的這個馬蹄形這個以前是北二女的學生上課的地方所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
256.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
278.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
韓國瑜、韓院長、保安周恩來他們所有的工作人員他們是在舊教室以前你校的這個教室裡面辦公可是相對你看到的唐鳳立在上班他早上去訂好新光大樓再上班這個落差是不是非常大 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
279.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
296.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
事實上不是只有世衛發展部、目前為止NCC、有些辦公室、工程會都能做到裡面對不對今天本席做個倡議有沒有可能現在在外面租辦公室的我前面清查過差不多18億左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
298.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
319.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這些在外面租辦公室的想辦法去找一個中繼的辦公室找一個像荒廢或者閒置的學校搬進去以後每年我們至少省十幾億的租金好不好好我們一起來努力好我們把這個錢省下來為人民勘緊荷包把平時平高省下來好好謝謝委員請不一定來我們詳細的來看省紀部發生的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
323.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
350.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
你看速發部的我們回到速發部的四個大問題剛講我們立法院用以前北二里的一個教室可是呢速發部去找了地厚台北市地厚租金地厚高的星光大樓他的租金太貴現在分析去追又發現一個新的問題了一本價一年半對不對用了多少錢?什麼樣的價錢?七千萬對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
353.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
373.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
七千萬標是一年應四千六百六十七萬結果啦我最新追查到了一斤年延月份又去簽了一個六年三億的租金是否可以領阿怎麼三億用買就好啊誰跟你說是不是三億都可以在新北市很多地方買新房子啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
374.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
385.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
幹麻拿去租?這是第一個大問題。第二個進井細清六百六十七萬已經太多了他簽了又多了一年花了人民納稅錢333萬這個要不要處理? |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
391.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
414.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我們這一個啊我們還是因為其實你要租房子啊要有要經過國產史看看有沒有閒置的房地啦我們現在的閒置房地啊還是非常多啦還有新北地我們要替數位部唐鳳講一個話啦這其實你看現在有人在開槍事實上任何的暴力我們都是譴責的暴力不能夠解決問題那老實講 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
417.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
442.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
樹發部跟唐鳳BC租地厚星光大樓這麼貴的房子,中央也有責任啊!租界署還有你剛講的國有財產局,他應該前面去清查啊!像現在很好啊!現在舊的財政部的大樓他新的搬出去之後,舊的他整修完之後,補強完之後國產署現在就在辦公啊!就省了很多錢,對不對?你我剛講的,方會的學校、退場的學校趕快去找 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
442.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
469.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
若當初中央是這樣幫事務發布事務發布就不會發生這個問題所以我們等一下有一個重要責任我們等一下幫事務發布找新家我去追了這個問題後來唐鳳跟事務發布也跟齊凱講跟本席講他們的合約裡面訂了一條只要他們有找到合適租金比較低廉的地方或者有中繼的地方他們半年前跟星光大樓講他們就可以辦出去所以我們來努力幫被罵的臭頭的 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
471.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
498.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
數位部、數位發展部找新家好不好好數化部現在還有一個大的問題我跟大家討論一下他之前說要搬,搬了溝通不好所以台北市本錢花了1.8億蓋了南門的中繼市場對不對結果你看花了1.8億然後用了四年新的美輪美奐的被拆掉了我覺得這個行政責任當初溝通不良這個審計部應該要去追一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
499.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
525.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那最嚴重的問題來了來我給大家看一下數位發展部現在最嚴重的問題是什麼地方就是它的租金以往就是它的總分啊主席你知不知道它的公設多少他去租這個地後星光大樓它的公設多少42那他等於是有58%啊結果唐鳳還拍了片說什麼他的裝潢一坪才兩萬塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
527.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
556.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
你應該扣掉那42%對不對我們給他看一下他如果實際的是多少錢我們看一下他本來唐鳳拍片說是不到2萬塊事實上你扣掉42%以後他實際的裝潢費用一倍超過400塊這會不會太浪費人民人民的名字名高了好我們現在拉大來看我們來看一下本席去清查了113年度所有在外面租用辦公室的單位我們來看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
558.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
558.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我們有要求他 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
584.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
605.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以有 審計部有要求嘛有要求 想辦法把他九千把九億多在外管的這個錢把他省下來你買了以後你外交如果都很順當然一直用嘛 租金就省下來嘛 對不對第一個哪天要賣還是賺錢啊OK 還是所以外管的這部分很清楚就要趕快買好 那裡面的我們看一下看下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
607.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
627.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
你看本席去查,泰國辦事處108年滿了到113年現在去省幾億了所以這9億多怎麼省下來?省計部也有責任督促他們趕快滿好不好?好OK,那我們看國內的國內的這將近10億到底要怎麼省下來?其本席很明確的倡議 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
628.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
657.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
世衛發展部已經講了只要給他合適的中繼站他半年前提出來之後他就可以搬進去所以我們趕快幫他找新家到哪邊找新家有兩個方法第一個舊的財政部大樓他已經補強了現在可以再用10年對不對那現在是國產國產署國產署在裡面對不對如果早一點的話就給世衛部或給其他單位用好不好好第二個前面清查現在哪些學校是方會的 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
659.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
682.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
學歷法院不要只有我們院長在學校辦公以後中央部會包括NCC工程會甚至消防署這些在外面出辦公室的搬到學校去辦公有沒有我們有清一下也有這樣的一個那透過這樣的努力我們一年至少可以省10億的租金民脂民膏我們請大家努力好接下來要談一個特別預算的問題對吳思堯民進黨的立委 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
686.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
707.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
特別提到這問題我覺得他可能沒有好好看你們的結算報告也沒有看立法院的公報吧新北電你們每一年的審計報告裡面提了很多特別預算腐爛的事情啊特別就是怎麼說的啊都沒計畫沒有計畫就亂編錢亂花錢啊他怎麼可以要求預算法的地 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
710.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
725.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
83條的第4款不能修呢?第一個前面3款已經夠用了戰爭或者是緊急事情或者重大災變第4條本身就是空白授權嘛第4條本來就要刪掉不只是審計部的審查報告裡面很多的例子清清楚楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
726.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
747.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
林進棟為醫警的財經專家、藤白賢、喜天才、阿扁、陳水扁當立委的時候﹐到現在的柯建民﹐很多立法委員、民進黨立法委員都提過要削掉這第四款啊。為什麼第四款不拿掉呢?我們明確來看,你看,特別醫生的現在已經變成什麼了呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
749.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
778.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
吞噬民主民高最大的黑洞國債債台高築最大的這個元兇呢我去做了一個統計為李定輝及蔡英文事任這個總統執政我們現在的債務六條多對不對六條兩千塊億其中將近四帳都是透過特別預算取債來的特別是剛講那個第四款的那個空白收錢最嚴重的也就是你們常提出來有很多缺失的我們再看一下蔡英文任內 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
781.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
810.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
提的這個特評預算是所有從蔣中正到蔣經國歷任的總統所有最多的這沒有腐爛的問題嗎?我們看下一張光是結算報告裡面看到我看到很多例子前瞻基礎建設這個條例裡面本來軌道建設經費分價變多少?七千兩百億對不對?結果後來經過審計部的報告經過立法院去追降到多少?降到一千九百零三億的會上里經嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
812.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
831.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
基隆輕軌這更離譜了蔡英文說去跟基隆說什麼我要編81的基隆輕軌2020年可以通車結果到了2023年都沒有做跳票了變成輕軌變成要做捷運500、450而已到後來又增加到多少697億 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
834.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
861.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
這個有計劃嗎?請問你為什麼要這樣回答?有事要先特別說在重點對不對?你的專業就是說你要有計劃才會有預算嘛!現在不是啊!現在特別預算就是被爛用啊!亂丟出來亂編又亂花!再看下一張!你看!平和公路本價變多少?七十八點八億!一下暴增到七十七點九二億!前瞻旅館欸!要三千給八十億欸! |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
864.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
889.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
這個增加了幾百倍啊新竹棒球場你看天母棒球場的整修才用了八千萬新竹棒球場一下用了十二億還弊案不斷這個TAB預算法的83條的第四款是不是真的要刪掉這一個新規令前面三款已經夠用了對不對後面就是一個空白授權嘛來我們看下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
891.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
910.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
他嚴重在什麼地方每一篇這個法提出來以後他都弄一個特別條例我們對預算都這麼熟悉的人他有本來公共債務跟財政基地有兩條非常重要的紅線第一條公債法的第五條的第七項就是所謂的債務的這個流量結果你看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
912.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
921.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
中央總預算跟特別預算每年的舉債額度不得超過其總額的這15%他先把這條紅線拿掉了不嚴鎖財政紀律第二條排除預算法第23條23條說什麼不能夠拿舉債跟設計作為經常性的支出對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
930.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
952.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
結果現在每一年都用了一堆的這個取債方式就是因為用了特別預算嘛所以本席非常明確的要求來我們看最後一張刪除特別預算第83條第4款空白授權就是那一條不定期或數年一次的重大正式而且要有計劃才有預算可行性評估一定要合理可用另外你一直在強調一點不要影響到地方的財政可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
960.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
972.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
所以第一,我們把天下租屋的辦公室那10億省下來。第二個,特別一張空賣收錢要趕快把它賭起來,不要變成人民納稅錢一直漏出去,每一年漏掉一兩千億,對不起民眾好不好?我們共產黨要努力! |