| IVOD_ID |
150779 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150779 |
| 日期 |
2024-04-01 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-35-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
11 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-04-01T12:01:04+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-04-01T12:10:20+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:16 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01d093d00f1a07c076ad403173d7074e91bc002822e084d0f8ba9b0039caa7a6b36af2056dcf8b7c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
賴士葆 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:01:04 - 12:10:20 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-04-01T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長邱國正、經濟部次長報告「國防自主政策推動具體成效暨未來目標」，併請國家科學及技術委員會列席，並備質詢。） |
| gazette.lineno |
698 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
賴委員士葆：（12時1分）謝謝主席以及各位先進，有請邱部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請邱部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
邱部長國正：賴委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
賴委員士葆：部長你好。你是最近這幾年我看到的國防部長少數受到朝野立委的肯定。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
邱部長國正：謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
賴委員士葆：大家給你打氣。你今天能夠來，我們給你打氣。我先請教你一個問題，我看了一下，說確定賴清德準總統要聽你的簡報，時間確定了嘛，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
邱部長國正：明天，是明天嗎？對。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
賴委員士葆：明天？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
邱部長國正：確定了。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
賴委員士葆：這個時間點有點妙。在過去，總統都是先確定了行政院長、確定了國安會秘書長之後，再聽國防部長簡報。這次這個schedule往前了，所以先聽國防部長，能不能講一下你自己體會是什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
邱部長國正：我跟委員報告，我還真沒發覺這個問題，有前後的問題。不過，真的，我們覺得一個長官要更換的話，有必要把我們當前狀況跟未來的走向要給他做說明。其實在準備當中，為什麼那邊還沒報告就叫我們來報告，沒有這樣子。我覺得我沒有這種念頭，我就不知道怎麼回答了，但的確有這件事情，我們要做報告。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
賴委員士葆：報告的重點在哪裡？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
邱部長國正：我剛剛講的，就不外乎是國防部現在的工作任務、重點是什麼、未來方向為何，大概就這一方面。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
賴委員士葆：我看是這樣子的，我的解讀啦！這次不一樣，提早讓國防部長先報告，有某種程度他們也力挺你，所以不要小看自己啊！朝野立委力挺你，連長官都力挺你。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
邱部長國正：我很感激委員，但我真的沒有想到這件事，真的沒有，不知道！ |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
賴委員士葆：你翻翻看！你翻一翻過去！翻一翻過去都這樣子的，對不對？那你感受到這樣子的話，520之後你確定走嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
邱部長國正：報告委員，上來接這個位置…… |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
賴委員士葆：沒辦法回答？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
邱部長國正：真的偶然，但將來早晚一定要交差…… |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
賴委員士葆：那當然！ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
邱部長國正：一定要交差，時間點我真的不知道。假使我個人的話，參與什麼意見，那我們早就表達了，所以我們從來沒有表達過我要什麼時候離開或…… |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以520之後，如果賴總統認為有必要再借重你，在另外的領域亦是義不容辭？ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
邱部長國正：報告委員，這是一個假定的問題，我不知道怎麼回答，真的耶！我不知道怎麼回答。委員今天問的，我不知道如何回應。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
賴委員士葆：我今天做球給你，你看對你多好！ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
邱部長國正：謝謝委員，真的，這個…… |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
賴委員士葆：好！所以都不知道？ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
邱部長國正：不知道，真的不知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
賴委員士葆：我看這些動作，一方面我覺得怎麼是你被追殺的感覺？ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
邱部長國正：不會啊！不會。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以我們來挺你啊！現在看起來，挺你的力道很多耶！除了立委以外，還有好幾個力量在挺你！就是說為什麼？為什麼這樣？你在這裡表現出來的，有那個將領的味道，你有魄力！是不是？講真話，講實話，不講謊話，這個很重要。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
邱部長國正：謝謝委員的誇讚，但是我真的就是軍人…… |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
賴委員士葆：我怕以後我沒機會來讚美你了啦！因為你講真話，這個東西說不定……不要說不定。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][1] |
我們來看一下，你在這裡講的，你說第一擊的概念改變了，只要有實體越界，第一擊。當然你要判斷，第一擊不是馬上打，判斷它是軍的、是商的什麼之類的，剛才很多委員問，我再深入問一個問題，就是大陸的無人機來到這裡，你講的一點是講得很好的，管你什麼逆光不逆光，我們開車都知道，有時候是逆光啊！然後你說因為是逆光，就發生車禍，哪裡說逆光，我就可以不按照SOP？哪裡說逆光，我可以人跑掉了，彈藥放在那裡？那個畫面很丟臉，部長啊！我看那個畫面看了很難過耶！ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
邱部長國正：報告委員，的確真的我們是有訓練方面缺失、反應的力度不夠，但事實上我為什麼不想改變？就是修條。當初第一擊，大家建議要有槍砲，好像會傷到人，但現在從無人機一而再、再而三出來，對民心士氣困擾很大，所以我們把它當作也是種挑釁。挑釁的話，我們就把它列為，不管軍用、民用，反正一個實體，在天上我也看不出來軍用、民用的，但只要是實體的話，這步驟一處理完，我就直接把它擊落。這不代表是我們第一擊，是他第一擊，我們這樣在做調整。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][1] |
那在訓練方面，大家也有反應力度還是不夠，我覺得除了強化以外，我們會拿出一個方法，具體的方法。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
賴委員士葆：可是現在有一個問題哦！無人機過來，它是無線的，還是有線的，不一樣哦！如果是無線的，用干擾器可以把它干擾；有線的就沒辦法了，有線的不知道該怎麼辦？你打飛彈又成本太高，怎麼辦？你告訴我，有線的怎麼辦？ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
邱部長國正：假使干擾，干擾不下來…… |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
賴委員士葆：干擾不下來。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
邱部長國正：下一步就是，該要把它打掉就打掉吧！ |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
賴委員士葆：用什麼打下來？用什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
邱部長國正：我們有個規範，假如你講說用…… |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
賴委員士葆：飛彈？ |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
邱部長國正：不不不…… |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
賴委員士葆：飛彈一顆好幾千萬耶！ |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
邱部長國正：不能這樣子，所以我們一定要有一個節度。你用砲彈，也會產生反效果。我們就利用現有的武器，該把它擊落就擊落，這個武器的選項，是由我們來決定。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
賴委員士葆：是。現在看起來，它只要在上面，沒有辦法判斷民用的還是偵搜的，沒辦法判斷有沒有掛彈，是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
邱部長國正：不判斷這個，只要有，不是我們的，該要警告他也不理，不管你有線、無線，那我就把它擊落嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
賴委員士葆：那前幾天這個影片怎麼辦呢？這個影片的情況，你怎麼處理？ |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
邱部長國正：現在就是他們沒有按程序來做，或訓練得不夠，根本就不知道有這程序，這我在追，而且我會追究，不管陸軍或防衛部，他們本身要負責這個…… |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
賴委員士葆：什麼時候會有處置的結果出來？ |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
邱部長國正：我沒有辦法講到時間，因為畢竟還有一個程序要走嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
賴委員士葆：什麼程序？ |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
邱部長國正：但一定會有，一定會處理，處理完以後，我派專人跟委員做報告，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
賴委員士葆：跟我們立法院報告就可以了。 |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
邱部長國正：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
賴委員士葆：大家很關心這個，因為現在三不五時它就跑來，三不五時就跑來，到底要怎麼樣確定？所以我總結一下部長剛剛講的，就是說誰要上來我們上空，不管怎麼樣打下來就對了？ |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
邱部長國正：對，是這樣子。讓他知道我發覺你，你還不走，那我就採取斷然手段嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
賴委員士葆：沒有第二條路了？沒有說…… |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
邱部長國正：沒有啦！因為委員剛剛也講了，它已經一而再，再而三。我們照鳴槍方式，跟你喊話，不管聽得到、聽不到，這就是我們的作為，我的程序都做完了，你還不走！ |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
賴委員士葆：好，最後一個問題我想請教你，我的時間到了。就是我們什麼時候可以自己量產無人機？ |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
邱部長國正：現在已經在努力做這一方面，有一些東西已經做出來…… |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
賴委員士葆：還沒有，目前prototype還不知道，這個雛形…… |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
邱部長國正：這個還在測試等等的，但有一些已經有了。 |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
賴委員士葆：大概可以期待多久？臺灣這方面的工業很強啊！可以期待多久？ |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
齊所長立平：報告委員，我是航空所所長齊立平。 |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
賴委員士葆：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
齊所長立平：事實上我們有好幾款都已經在量產之中，甚至已經都在服役當中了 |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
賴委員士葆：有幾款？有幾款？講一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
張院長忠誠：報告委員，目前研發了有11款，偵打一體的朝這方向研發的有7款，量產的有…… |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
賴委員士葆：在服役的有幾架？ |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
張院長忠誠：在服役的有4種已經服役了，都是監偵。 |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
賴委員士葆：有幾架啦？ |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
張院長忠誠：這個多了，這個大概有兩百多架，小的、中的都有。 |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
賴委員士葆：那我們不是還要跟外面買3,000架，不是嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
張院長忠誠：那是商用的…… |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
邱部長國正：用的層級不一樣。 |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以我們軍用的已經可以了？ |
| gazette.blocks[75][0] |
張院長忠誠：是的。 |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
賴委員士葆：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
邱部長國正：謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
主席：好，謝謝賴委員，也請中科院提供偵打一體有哪7款，提供給委員會。好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[78][1] |
接下來請林憶君委員上臺質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
240 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-35-11 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
馬文君 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
黃仁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
沈伯洋 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
羅美玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
王定宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
徐巧芯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
洪申翰 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
林楚茵 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
陳永康 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
陳冠廷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
林憶君 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
189 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-04-01 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1132201 |
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1132201_00004 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請國防部部長邱國正、經濟部次長報告「國防自主政策推動具體成效暨未來目標」，併請國家
科學及技術委員會列席，並備質詢 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝主席請各位先進有請邱部長請邱部長財委好部長我也好你是最近這幾年我看到的國防部長少數個受到朝野立委的肯定謝謝委員大家給你打氣 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
28.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
29.923 |
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你今天能夠來我們給你打氣這個我先請教你一個問題我看了一下說確定賴清德準總統要聽你的簡報時間確定了嗎對不對明天是明天嗎對明天確定了這個時間點這個有點有點妙 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
54.588 |
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69.68 |
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在過去在過去總統都是先確定了行政院長確定了國安委秘書長之後再聽國防部長簡報那這次這個schedule往前了先聽國防部長然後再這個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
72.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
95.474 |
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你不能講一下你自己體會是什麼我根本沒發覺這個問題有前後的問題不過真的我們覺得講說一個長官要更換的話有必要把我們目前當前狀況跟未來的走向要給他做說明其實在準備當時我那邊為什麼那邊還沒報告就叫我們來報告沒有這樣子我覺得這個我 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
97.981 |
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124.893 |
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沒有這種念頭我就不知道怎麼回答了但的確有這件事情我們要做報告報告的重點在哪裡我剛剛講的就外國國防部我們的工作任務啊目前的重點是未來方向為何但就這一方面我看是這樣子的我的解讀這次不一樣提早讓國防部長先報告有某種程度啊他們也力挺你啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
125.99 |
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138.894 |
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所以不要小看自己啊!朝院、立委、立廷尼,連長官都立廷尼我很感謝委員啊,但是我真的沒有想到這件事,真的沒有。那你別誇嘛,你翻一翻過去,翻一翻過去都是這樣子的。那你感受到嗎?那這樣子的話,520之後你確定走嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
149.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
152.94 |
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所以520之後如果賴總統認為有必要再接種你在另外的領域 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
176.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
178.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我今天注射給你看對你多好 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
195.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
221.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
所以我們不知道啦齁我看這個一些動作你看一方面我們覺得欸怎麼你被追殺的感覺咧所以我們在挺你啊現在看起來我挺你力道很多欸除了立委以外還有好多個力量在挺你咧就是說是怎樣為什麼這樣你在這裡表現出來的有那個降臨的味道沒有魄力講真話講實話不講謊話 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
224.855 |
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230.998 |
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這個很重要我怕以後沒有機會來讚美你了因為你講真話這個東西說不定好了不要說不定了我們看一下你就在這裡講的你說第一期的概念改變了只要有實體越界 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
251.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
266.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
第一集當然你要判斷喔第一集不是馬上打判斷他是軍的啦是商的啦什麼之類的那現在這個剛才很多委員問啊我在深入問了個問題啊就是大陸的無人機來到這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
268.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
289.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
你講的一點是講得很好的管你什麼逆光不逆光我們開桌就知道啊有時候是逆光啊哪裡說因為這個逆光我就我就發生車禍哪裡說逆光我就可以不按照SOP哪裡說逆光我可以人跑掉了彈藥放在那裡那個畫面很丟臉欸部長啊我看那個畫面看了很難過欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
291.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
318.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
報告委員,的確,我們是有訓練方面確實反映的力度但事實上我為什麼不想要改變就是修條,當初第一集大家建議要有槍砲,不然傷到人但現在從無人機一二載,載了三十種出來對大家民進兵事情困擾很大所以我們要當作也是你這種挑釁挑釁的話,我們就把它列為不管軍用民用,反正一個實體 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
320.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
321.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
可是現在有一個問題喔無人機過來它是無限的還是有限的不一樣喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
347.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
368.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
你如果是無限的用干擾機啊,你干擾器可以把他干擾,有限的就沒辦法咧,有限的,不知如何咧,你打非他就成本太高,打,你怎麼辦你告訴我,有限的怎麼辦?有限的,有限的,干擾不下來,下一步就是,下一步就是,該要把他打掉,打掉嘛,用什麼打下來,用什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
369.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
369.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
賴士葆 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
391.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
412.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這個現在看起來的話他只要在上面沒有辦法判斷民用的還是徵收的沒辦法判斷有沒有掛彈是不是不判斷這個只要有不是我們的大家要警告他也不理不管你有限無限那我就把他記錄好嗎那前幾天這個影片怎麼辦呢這個影片的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
416.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
416.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
什麼時候會有處置的結果出來? |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
434.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
460.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我沒有辦法講到時間啦因為畢竟還有一個程序要走嘛但一定會有一定會處理處理完以後我派專員跟會員做報告就跟我們立法院報告就可以了大家很關心這個因為現在三不五時他就跑來三不五時就跑來到底要怎麼樣確定所以部長剛剛講我總結一下就是說只要上來我們上空不管怎麼樣就打下來就對了是這樣子經過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
463.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
466.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
最後一個問題我想請教的因為時間到了就是我們什麼時候可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
494.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
504.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
臺灣這方面的工業很強啊可以期待多久?報委員我是航空所所長齊立平事實上我們已經有好幾款都已經在量產之中甚至已經都在服役當中了 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
523.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
548.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
有幾款 現在目前研發了有11款 增大一體的目前朝上研發了有7款在服役的有幾架 在服役的有4種已經服役了對 都是健身 有幾架了 這個多了 這個有大概有200多架小的中的 那我們不是還要跟外面買3000架不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
549.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
557.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
謝偉 |