| IVOD_ID |
150777 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150777 |
| 日期 |
2024-04-01 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-1-19,23-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期經濟、交通兩委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、交通兩委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-04-01T11:57:02+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-04-01T12:04:48+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:07:46 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01d093d00f1a07c06846a380b1bde1c50ac6c5f5acaf79d9f8ba9b0039caa7a6baa294d2605753f15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳亭妃 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:57:02 - 12:04:48 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-04-01T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、交通兩委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查本院委員傅崐萁等53人擬具「環島高速鐵路建設特別條例草案」案。(詢答及處理)） |
| gazette.lineno |
640 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
陳委員亭妃：（11時57分）謝謝主席！我們請主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：我們再請龔主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：陳委員好！ |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
陳委員亭妃：主委！從上個禮拜的交通委員會到這個禮拜的經濟委員會，其實我覺得我們討論這個議題很容易被大家誤解為好像民進黨政府沒有在重視我們花東的交通，但其實不然！因為你們都要去做統整，國家型計畫都要你們做統籌，跨部會去協調，那如果依照你所瞭解的，我們其他部會都不講，就光說交通部好了，其實說真的從鐵路、公路，不論是用專案還是補助型的，我們是給了很多，但是我相信花東的建設永遠沒有一天是可以中止的，怎麼做都不夠，我們希望大家一起努力，可是不能被誤導說我們都沒在做，而且今天我們該做的可行性評估、該做的相關的規劃，其實只要地方有提出，我們也願意配合，也一直在做，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
陳委員亭妃：那如果是這樣子的話，我想請問一下，現在針對這個高速鐵路部分的可行性評估呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：高速鐵路現在來講的話，現在是北延到宜蘭、南延到屏東，這兩段的可行性已經過了，現在在做綜合規劃。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
陳委員亭妃：現在說的是若更擴大往東部去走呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：因為原先的規劃在東部是快鐵，快鐵是提升它的速度，現在已在進行當中。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
陳委員亭妃：所以快鐵已經在進行可行性評估了嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：在進行了，而且甚至於在進行施作當中。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
陳委員亭妃：有些在施作，有一部分是在進行可行性評估，然後再進入到那些比較敏感地帶有可能進入環評，就是說整個比較完整性的都在進行當中，而且經費預算也一期一期在我們政府的預算當中都已經有基本規劃，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
陳委員亭妃：如果是這樣子，我們本預算還有一些專案預算都已經在進行了，那還可以用所謂的特別預算來處理嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：報告委員，所以我們還是認為如果要啟動花東高鐵的話，可能還是要啟動可行性評估，按照既有的程序來是比較恰當。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
陳委員亭妃：就像快鐵一樣嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：對，沒有錯。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
陳委員亭妃：就像快鐵嘛！今天一個大型的建設、一個大型的公共計畫甚至是交通計畫，它不可能是用飛的，因為它涉及太多比如一些所謂的土地問題，還有我們的技術問題，還有我們要突破的問題、溝通的問題等等很多很多。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：對，還有環境影響評估。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
陳委員亭妃：對，所以這個部分不是不做，而是我們怎麼把它做到到位，然後讓人民有感，甚至交通建設，說真的，今天如果決定要做是要一直做下去的，不是說做到哪停到哪，這樣不是交通建設，這樣只是會讓地方看得到吃不到，對不對？就好像是一個假的東西，說什麼「有有有，我幫你爭取了，你看！這個計畫這麼大」，可是你沒有按部就班來而是用跳的，用跳的就可以跳上去嗎？萬一這個基底沒有做好，基礎都沒有打好，會跌下來的！今天花東地區的民眾沒有辦法，如果說今天大家所看到的是一個不負責任的政府，大家來喊喊就好了，是不是這樣？我們要做一個負責任的政府，所以既然有人提出，我們從開始就都接受每個地方所提出的公共建設計畫，有需要我們就去評估，有需要我們就去做，我們沒有因為什麼顏色，不可能！我常在講，我們的前瞻建設，如果比較起來，說真的，國民黨執政的縣市首長可能拿的都還比民進黨執政的政府還多，如果以比例來看的話。所以我們不分藍綠，因為這是地方需要，不分藍綠，這是民眾需要，只要地方需要、民眾需要，我們政府就要去協助。一樣，如果這個所謂的高速鐵路的部分真的有需要，不必用什麼特別條例，該做就去做，否則如果每一個地方都要一個特別條例，那我們臺南也要一個特別條例呀！對不對？尤其是我們的水庫淤積成這樣，我們就告訴你說要一個清淤特別條例，可以嗎？也可以啊！因為它影響的是所有民生的用水、經濟的用水，這個影響大不大？是南部地方整個經濟脈絡的發展，那我們是不是可以也設一個所謂清淤水庫條例？而且所有大型水庫、直接供應經濟能量的幾乎都在我們臺南，所以我們就成立一個所謂水庫清淤特別條例，再編一個水庫清淤特別預算，每一個地方都一個特別條例、特別預算，主委你覺得呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：現在重大的公共工程都按既有的機制在進行，所以我們還是認為循現在的機制來辦是比較恰當的，因為既有的機制，我們剛才提到的可行性評估…… |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
陳委員亭妃：要慢慢堆疊啦！要慢慢堆疊。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：準備工作要做好，準備工作做得更紮實，後面施工就可以比較順利。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
陳委員亭妃：而且人民也不會到最後是看得到吃不到，好像明明有在做，結果「哇！卡關了」，因為有一個所謂的環境敏感地帶我們沒有去評估到，動不了了，要不要停下來？要啊！現在環境優先耶！所以我們要把所有的配套做得更完整。我再一次強調，地方有需要，我們要做，人民有需要，我們要做，但是不能因為個人的政治而變成讓我們在這個基礎沒有做好，因為沒有做好而跌下來的話，我們對不起所有花東的人民，謝謝！ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
主席：謝謝。接下來我們請邱志偉委員做詢答。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
62 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
聯席會議-11-1-19,23-1 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
傅崐萁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
邱議瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
呂玉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
林國成 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
林沛祥 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
蔡其昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
徐富癸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
林俊憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
何欣純 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
邱若華 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
陳超明 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
陳素月 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
李昆澤 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
游顥 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
廖先翔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[26] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[27] |
林岱樺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[28] |
魯明哲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[29] |
黃仁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[30] |
黃健豪 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[31] |
黃建賓 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[32] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
1 |
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2024-04-01 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
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立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、交通兩委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
審查本院委員傅崐萁等53人擬具「環島高速鐵路建設特別條例草案」案（詢答及處理） |
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主席主席 |
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主委我們從上個禮拜的交通委員會到這個禮拜的經濟委員會其實我覺得我們在討論這個議題很容易被大家誤解說好像民進黨政府沒有在重視我們花東的交通但其實不然 |
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62.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
因為你們都要去做統整嘛國家型計畫都要你們做一個統籌的部分跨部會去協調嘛那如果依照你所了解的我們就講交通部啦其他部會都不要講就交通部其實說真的從鐵路、公路我們不論是用專案或是補助型的我們是給了很多但是我相信華東 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
64.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
68.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
永遠建設沒有一天是可以終止的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
78.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
103.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
而且今天其實我們說的我們該做的可行性評估該做的相關的規劃其實只要地方有提出我們也願意配合也一直在做對不對是那如果是這樣子的話我想請問一下那現在我們目前針對這個高速鐵路的部分可行性呢可行性評估呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
105.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
120.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
高速鐵路現在來講的話現在是北延到宜蘭然後南延到屏東這兩段的可行性已經過了現在在做綜合規劃現在就是說依照更擴大如果說往 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
122.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
147.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
東部去找東部因為原先的規劃是東部是快鐵所以快鐵現在提升它的這個速度現在在進行當中所以快鐵已經有可行性了嗎?在進行可行性評估了嗎?在進行而且甚至於在進行施作當中對啊 就可以施作然後有一部分是在可行性然後再進入到那些比較敏感地帶有可能進入環評嘛就是說在整個比較完整性的都在進行當中嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
148.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
149.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
財政部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
173.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
177.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
今天一個大型的建設、一個大型的公共計畫甚至是交通計畫,它不可能是好像用飛的 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
197.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
219.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
因為它有太多所涉及的一些所謂土地問題還有我們的技術問題還有我們要突破的問題溝通的問題很多環境影響評估對 所以這個部分不是不做而是我們怎麼把它到位然後讓人民有感甚至交通建設說真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
220.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
245.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那今天如果固定的去做是要呼呼叫捏一直走下去捏不是說做到哪停到哪這樣不是交通建設這樣只是會讓地方看得到吃不到對不對就好像是一個假的東西說有有有我幫你爭取了你看這個計畫這麼大可是你沒有安撫就搬來你用跳的 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
246.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
274.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
用跳的就可以跳上去嗎?萬一這個基底都沒有做好基礎都沒有打好,會跌下來耶今天花東地區的民眾沒有辦法如果說今天大家所看到的是一個不負責任政府真的啊,大家來畫畫就好了,信不信?我們要做一個負責任的政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
275.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
304.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
所以既然有提到我們從開始嘛任何我們都接受每個地方所提出的公共建設計畫有需要我們就去評估有需要我們就去做我們沒有因為什麼顏色不可能我常在講我們的前瞻說真的國民黨的縣市首長可能拿的都還比民進黨政府還多如果以比例來看喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
306.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
333.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
所以我們不分藍綠因為這是地方需要不分藍綠這是民眾需要只要地方需要民眾需要我們政府就要去協助一樣如果這個所謂的高速鐵路的部分真的需要不用用什麼特別條例啊該做就去做否則如果每一個地方都要一個特別條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
334.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
359.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那我們臺南也要一個特別條例啊對不對尤其你看我們的水庫預期成這樣我們也跟他說啊清淤特別條例可以嗎?也可以啊因為它影響的是所有民生的用水經濟的用水這大不大?是南部地方耶整個經濟脈絡經濟的發展耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
362.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
390.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那我們是不是可以也設一個所謂清淤整個水庫而且所有水庫幾乎在我們臺南大型水庫直接供應經濟能量的都在我們臺南所以我們就成立一個所謂水庫清淤特別條例再編一個水庫清淤特別預算每一個地方都一個特別條例特別預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
392.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
416.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
主委你覺得呢?所以我們還是說現在重大的公共工程都有既有的機制在進行我們認為循現在的機制來辦是比較恰當的因為既有的機制我們剛才提到的可行性評估要慢慢堆疊啦要慢慢堆疊啦準備工作做得更扎實的話後面施工就可以比較順利而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
418.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
436.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
人民也不會到最後是看得到吃不中,好像明明有在做,哇!卡關!因為有一個所謂的環境敏感地帶,我們沒有去評估到,動不了!要不要停下來?要啊!現在環境優先! |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
439.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
439.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
好! |