| IVOD_ID |
150764 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150764 |
| 日期 |
2024-04-01 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-23-6 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期交通委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
6 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期交通委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-04-01T11:30:20+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-04-01T11:39:55+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:35 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01d093d00f1a07c0805bf190e0f9019b82ad73e3a9acf4eaf8ba9b0039caa7a68e32f538a164e72e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
林俊憲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:30:20 - 11:39:55 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-04-01T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部部長王國材就「極端氣候災防預警暨汛期防汛準備辦理情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
| gazette.lineno |
716 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
林委員俊憲：（11時30分）謝謝主席。本席邀請交通部王國材部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
林委員俊憲：高鐵有在嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
主席：高鐵有陸衛東副總。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
林委員俊憲：好，有請高鐵。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
王部長國材：林委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
林委員俊憲：謝謝部長。部長，有一件事情本席在這裡要肯定，也要請託、希望高鐵完成，就是關於高鐵往臺南的旅客數，臺南最近非常熱門，旅客運量增加非常快速，前（2022）年366萬人次，去年就477萬人次，增加30%啊！其中一點很重要的就是針對高鐵的快捷公車，那時候高鐵有補助。你看，使用高鐵快捷公車的乘客數也增加非常多，前年42萬，去年就快到60萬，增加了40%。不過，部長，你知道嘛！高鐵到臺南市中心……就以臺南市政府為例，你知道要多久嗎？平常大概要30分鐘啊！如果是交通尖峰時期，從臺南市政府坐到高鐵大概要40分鐘啊！像我就住在臺南市政府附近，來立法院開會時，每天要5點起床、6點出門，坐6點38分的班次，我的生活作息比當兵還要正常啊！所以高鐵快捷公車非常重要，希望高鐵能持續給我們支持，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
王部長國材：是，沒問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
林委員俊憲：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][1] |
另外，本席剛剛的臨時提案是這樣，交通部有一項245億的公共運輸服務升級計畫，是四年期計畫，到今年要截止了。但這245億目前只執行160億，執行率只有65%啦！還有85億，給你錢你也不會花，還有85億耶！所以本席才提案，你們對於一些公共運輸不方便的地方，像是臺南市，臺南市也沒有捷運啊！對不對？我們雖然是直轄市，但也沒有推出捷運啊！公車體系又還在起步階段。其實因為才剛升格沒有多久，我們確實需要很多公共運輸的支持啦！以目前為止已經花掉的這160億來看，臺中就拿了73億，高雄市72億，而臺南幾乎只有他們的一半、40億。所以我才會提案要求交通部儘速把這項補助執行下去啦！你們來要預算的時候，委員會支持，給你們245億；你說四年要執行完，但是到現在只有65%！所以我希望你們應該補助像臺南市或一些公共運輸比較不方便的地方，包括市區公車、國道客運、甚至軌道運輸等不同運具之間的轉乘、接駁服務啦！部長，你的看法呢？你知不知道這件事情？ |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
王部長國材：我了解，他們因為113年開始有電動公車是另外一項計畫，所以可能在編列預算時有一些沒有編。但是對於臺南的公共運輸…… |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
林委員俊憲：所以你編給我們這個是亂編的啊？胡亂編一編？ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
陳局長文瑞：還是我跟委員報告，委員，這項四年245億計畫其中160億就是用在公運的，另外85億…… |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
林委員俊憲：你剛剛已經答應我，1個月內要提計畫來啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
陳局長文瑞：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
林委員俊憲：我希望今年執行率可以達到95%啦，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
陳局長文瑞：好，沒問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
林委員俊憲：接下來我再問部長，也請機場官員上臺。請問國際機場的無人機防制計畫屬不屬於國安業務範圍？ |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
王部長國材：應該……非常重要，我覺得…… |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
林委員俊憲：算不算啦？算喔？ |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
王部長國材：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
林委員俊憲：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][1] |
臺灣最重要的兩個國際機場，一是臺北國際機場，也就是松山機場，一是桃園機場，是國門桃園國際機場。關於他們現在的無人機防制、偵防系統操作，松山機場的界定是這項採購確實涉及國家安全，就如同部長講的啦！而桃機說這不是國家安全的採購。請問誰才對？部長，對於無人機的防制，桃機說不是國家安全採購啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[20][2] |
我之前也曾經行文給桃機，也有給民航局啦！因為行政院對無人機防制……你大概知道吧！俄烏戰爭以來，大家都看到、都知道無人機的重要性，行政院早就通過無人機防制與防禦為國家安全的重要計畫，但是像桃機這麼重要的國門，四、五年來幾乎沒有進度，你知不知道？我把時程表給部長看一下。2019年，行政院就核定了，各機場要有自己的無人機防禦計畫；到去（2023）年，你們預算卻沒有執行、也沒有什麼進度，說要跟中科院合作，但中科院說他們不執行這項計畫，那你到底要怎麼辦啊？部長，你看一下，當時你們來交通委員會要了2億，2022年的執行金額是零，2023年是8,400萬，執行率43%，今年我不知道執行狀況如何。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][3] |
都是你們管的國際機場，松山機場說這屬於國安採購，桃機說不是，那現在到底是什麼情形？結果桃機跟松機把這項業務時──無人機的防制都轉包給民間保全公司，部長你知道吧！我不知道民間保全公司的情況。但松山機場雖說這是國安業務，但不是松山機場、航警局在做，也不是國安相關單位在做，而是民間的保全公司在做。桃機未來也是啦！把業務給民間的保全公司啦！我不知道民間保全公司有沒有能力，或者負責操作的人員有沒有證照、有沒有審查、如何考評啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[20][4] |
這兩個機場的保全公司做得好不好？部長，我再提供你參考啦！這兩家保全公司過去都多次違反勞動部規定，為什麼？很多工作都外包啦！松山機場有60件，桃機違規26件。桃機更離譜，給現在這間保全公司一年2億8,000萬，業者卻顧到電纜線被偷剪，你知道嗎？你知不知道？新聞鬧很大耶！給它2億8,000萬，它的保全業務卻做到電纜線被偷剪。那桃機怎麼處理？不是處罰這家保全耶！而是另外編了6,000萬，讓它聘請更多保全人員。遭竊反領到更多錢！你們又多給它預算！像這樣的保全公司可以執行無人機防制嗎？連電纜被偷剪都沒辦法警覺！無人機防禦系統包給民間保全公司要如何確保他們有能力、有這樣的專業人員來執行，部長？我看你也都不知道吧！ |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
王部長國材：我請桃機先說明一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
范總經理孝倫：我想跟委員報告，有關無人機防制，我們大概有兩部分工作。第一部分是跟中科院合作，委辦給它建置相關…… |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
林委員俊憲：中科院就說它不要做了，不是嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
范總經理孝倫：我們去年已經達成共識，剛剛委員提到去年那8,400萬就是中科院的系統已經開始建置，今年還會持續分期建置。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][1] |
另外，在操作、檢視、監看螢幕部分，我們的確委外請保全辦理，這部分也在航務單位的監管之下。如果系統偵測到無人機，我們會確認是不是…… |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
林委員俊憲：那你怎麼知道那些操作人員合乎資格、專業？有認證嗎？有執照嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
范總經理孝倫：跟委員報告…… |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
林委員俊憲：好啦！我時間到了啦！部長、桃機相關主管、董事長、總經理，這個問題你們要搞清楚啦！交給民間保全做，可以嗎？納入保全公司的業務範圍，這樣對嗎？我每次跟你們要相關公文，你都基於國家安全拒絕給我！你說涉及國家安全、是密件、是保密的耶！結果交給民間保全公司，還是像這種老是出紕漏的公司，你放心嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
王部長國材：我再處理一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
林委員俊憲：好，謝謝主席，謝謝部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
主席：林委員發言完畢，現在請游顥委員發言。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
122 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-23-6 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
李昆澤 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
徐富癸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
林國成 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
林沛祥 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
蔡其昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
魯明哲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
邱若華 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
何欣純 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
陳素月 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
許智傑 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
林俊憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
陳雪生 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
游顥 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
廖先翔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
陳俊宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
黃健豪 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
顏寬恒 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
63 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-04-01 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1132301 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1132301_00003 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請交通部部長王國材就「極端氣候災防預警暨汛期防汛準備辦理情形」進行專題報告，並備質
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝主席 北極邀請我們交通部王國材請王部長高鐵有在嗎高鐵 盧浩東 盧武總好 謝謝部長部長有一件事情北極在這裡要肯定那也請託希望高鐵因為高鐵在台南那個旅客數我們台南最近非常熱門 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
32.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
59.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
李克的運量增加非常快速去年前年2022年366萬人次去年就477萬增加30%那其中一個很重要的就是高鐵的快捷快捷公車那時候高鐵有補助你看使用高鐵快捷公車的乘客數也增加非常多我們去年前年42萬去年就到快60萬增加了40% |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
61.426 |
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81.243 |
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部長你知道嗎?我們以高鐵到台南市中心就以台南市政府為例你知道要多久嗎?大概平常要30分鐘你如果交通尖峰時期,台南市政府坐到高鐵大概要40分鐘像我就住在台南市政府附近我要來立法院開會,我每天要5點起床,6點出門,做6點38分 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
85.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
85.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我們交通部有一條兩百 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
107.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
131.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
45億的所謂公共運輸服務升級計畫4年期的計畫到今年要截止了這245億目前只執行160億執行率只有65%還有85億給你錢你也不會花還有85億所以本期才提案你對於一些公共運輸不方便的地方像台南市 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
133.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
161.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
臺南市也沒有捷運我們雖然是直轄市不上捷運工作體系還在起步階段其實因為它剛升格沒有多久我們確實需要很多公共運輸的支持如果以這個目前為止已經花掉了這160億像臺中就拿了73億高雄市72億臺南幾乎只有他們一半40億所以我才會提案要求交通部你要盡速把這個補助執行下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
162.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
184.659 |
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你來要預算的時候委員會支持你給你245億你說4年你要執行完到現在只有65%所以我希望你應該補助一些像臺南市啦一些或者一些公共運輸比較不方便的地方包括他的市區公車啦國道客運啦甚至軌道運輸啦或者像等等這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
186.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
207.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
不同運具間的不同運具之間的轉乘接駁的服務部長你有看法嗎你知道這個事情我瞭解因為他們因為1月3日開始有那個電動公車另外一個計畫所以可能在他們編預算的時候有一些沒有編但是對於台南的公共運輸 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
211.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
212.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
國際機場的無人機防制計畫請問屬不屬於國安業務的範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
238.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
242.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
臺北國際機場 松山機場 桃園國際機場現在他們的無人機增防系統操作在松山機場 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
263.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
276.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
他把他界定為這項採購﹖確實是涉及國家安全﹖就部長你講的那陶基說﹖這個不是國家安全的採購﹖我請問誰才對﹖部長﹖無人機的防治﹖陶基說不是國家安全的採購﹖但是我之前曾經新聞給陶基 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
292.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
307.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
因為行政院對無人機的防治大家知道吧現在俄羅斯戰爭以來大家看到都知道無人機的重要性那個時候行政院早就通過無人機的防治還有防禦 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
309.079 |
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330.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
是國家安全的重要計畫但是像桃機這麼重要的國門45年來幾乎沒有進度你知不知道我把那個時鐘表給部長看一下2019年行政院就核定了各機場你要有自己的無人機防疫計畫到2023年到去年 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
332.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
349.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
你預算也沒有執行也沒有什麼進度說要跟中科院合作中科院說他不執行這個計畫你到底要怎麼辦啊來部長你看一下當時來交通委員會要了2億2022年的執行金額02023年8400萬執行率43%那今年我們要執行狀況如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
359.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
366.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
然後你的機場,你們管的國際機場,松端機場說這個是屬於國安的採購,淘機說不是,現在到底是怎樣?好,結果淘機跟松機都把這項業務,無人機的房子都轉包給民間的保全公司,部長你知道吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
383.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
411.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我不是說民間的保全公司松山機場說這是國安業務他不是松山機場也不是航警局在做也不是相關國安單位在做是他民間的保全公司在做淘機未來也是啦他都把業務給民間的保全公司啦我不知道民間的保全公司有沒有能力啦或者是他負責操作的人員有沒有證照啦有沒有審查有沒有如何考評啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
412.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
430.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那這兩個機場的保全公司做得好不好?這兩家保全公司過去多次都違反勞動,因為勞動部有規定,為什麼?他們很多都外包啦,不過整個都做外包的啦。松山機場60間,淘機違規26件。 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
434.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
463.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
陶器更離譜啦陶器現在這間保全公司啦我們一年給他2億8千萬啦他顧到電腦廠去用陶瓦的你知道嗎你知道嗎辛苦鬧很大耶然後給他2億8千萬他的保全業務做到電腦先被偷減那陶器怎麼處理不是處罰這一家保全耶就另外編了6千多給他6千萬讓他去聘請更多保全人員就查陶他又電腦而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
465.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
467.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我請陶俊先說明一下這件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
489.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
512.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我想跟委員報告有關無人機防制的部分我們大概有兩部分的工作第一個部分是跟中科院來委辦給他建制這個系統我們去年已經有達成共識所以剛剛委員所提到去年的8400萬就是中科院的這個系統已經開始在建制今年還會持續分期來建制 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
513.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
536.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那另外就是我們在操作檢視監看螢幕的部分是的確我們是委外請保全來辦理那這個部分的話也跟我們行務單位是在我們行務單位的監管之下如果有系統裡面偵測到無人機尤其我們會確認他是那你怎麼知道那你怎麼知道那些操作人員有合乎資格專業 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
537.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
559.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
你有認證嗎?你有執照嗎?因為我時間到了啦部長還有我們淘機的相關主管董事長重慶這個問題你要搞清楚啦你交給民間保全做可以嗎?把他納回你們保全公司的那個業務範圍裡面這樣對嗎?你不是每次跟你要相關的公務你都說國家安全他拒絕給我勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
561.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
561.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
林委員發言完畢 |