| IVOD_ID |
150745 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150745 |
| 日期 |
2024-04-01 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-20-6 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期財政委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
6 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期財政委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-04-01T09:35:22+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-04-01T09:46:49+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:27 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01d093d00f1a07c07ce6f7445865cffcee14ad7ded5d841af8ba9b0039caa7a628864551c56b11fa5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳秉叡 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:35:22 - 09:46:49 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-04-01T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請財政部莊部長翠雲、金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧、內政部、國家發展委員會就「如何積極推動金融業投注國內公共建設，並達成社宅百萬戶之政策目標」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【4月1日及3日二天一次會】） |
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委員早先請次長回答前幾天我們部長有講說臺中市的那些市地存化的底廢地可不可以不要飆售然後用底廢地的成本賣給中央政府然後來創政府來興建設宅是不是有這樣的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
27.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
52.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
各位委員報告當然這個是去之前行政委員會其實有一個方案已經通過那我們就依照那個方案往下走那接下來其實會跟地方政府來談清楚那個原則那目標確實是希望不會是只有臺中市吧應該各地的縣市政府都一樣原則上所有縣市那另外一點這樣子其實要花不少國家的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
53.82 |
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77.222 |
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那這個也有時候如果預算誇得多會有資金排擠的效應是陳立法院提過你現在各縣市的這個容積率啊是由什麼樣的方式來決定的有的地方為什麼容積他可以地方政府就可以決意幫他增加那麼多那有的地方又不行各個縣市之間的那個法規又適用的法規不一樣這個你會不會跟我們說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
79.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
103.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
根本報告都是計畫裡頭主要計畫是中央在handle 細部計畫是有地方那細部計畫包含了剛剛您提到的這個容積率、建壁率所以這都確實長期以來都是由地方政府在決定它的住宅區、商業區的分類跟容積率、建壁率那目前看到確實有縣市之間有存在一個結構性的落差 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
103.897 |
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132.511 |
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我攻擊一個個案喔被監察院糾正的這個金華城的這個容積他一口氣把他提高到800多喔那又是另外一個議題啦金華城本來有他的法定容積齁那當然還有一些開發上的容積獎勵的申請那之前的爭議是在說他第一次蓋那個圓球時候的容積獎勵等他拆掉之後他要蓋新的時候原來的容積獎勵是不是還存在 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
133.391 |
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151.637 |
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那就有兩種論述那方向上面其實我們本來的我們的態度是只有一次性而不是永久性的東西我記得郝龍斌當台北市長的時候曾經為了一個台北好好看在一個地上種一點點花草然後就可以增加很多的容積後來你們不是也表示意見說不可以這樣嗎是 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
153.337 |
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167.852 |
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那可見你們對地方政府這樣的要求有沒有強制力還是你只是言者尊尊聽者渺渺呢?實質上如果他們已經超過了都市計畫法的授權的時候我們還是可以去撤銷他的這個公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
169.517 |
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169.657 |
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臺中的 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
189.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
216.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
臺中他商業區沿線那個部分我們就請他不是不是我回去再最近有一個因為行政院啊不是新北市啦是新北市的那個他就是要蓋設宅可以給予容積獎勵的那個回饋然後可以收收不要不要真的提供容積獎勵而是收貸金現在都這樣搞啊現在有一些現在就是可以做 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
218.052 |
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246.793 |
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他就是日期規定一個在捷運站幾百公尺內如果要做榮譽的話有一部分要先跟他買啊然後整個街坡的也要跟他買啊如果是TOD的那個邏輯其實他還有一定的基礎那有些是純粹只是賣榮基他並沒有設定什麼樣的範圍和一定的目標那變成是買空賣空的賣榮基那這個部分我們現在我們已經發文去新北市政府那也跟他們溝通好原則上這個方案他們就會把它撤掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
247.153 |
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264.588 |
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你知道為什麼我要問你這個嗎?因為有人講說如果政府的容積彈性一點跟建商談的時候他每一個社宅他每一個住宅都蓋一部分你給他容積他蓋一部分的社會住宅相對的條件給你這樣政府不用花錢啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
266.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
295.362 |
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你站不站成這樣的講法這是一種理想但是實務上的操作其實蠻困難的因為很多開發他想說我社區裡面有社宅融在裡面基本上他賣房子也會不好賣建商其實也不大願意參與我覺得願意的人願意不願意的人不願意是看你提供的誘因條件另外一點就是也要這個地方為什麼要請莊部長來很多的國有土地他後來是會再參加都市更新的 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
295.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
309.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
吳秉叡 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
310.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
331.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這個叫做權力變換率他是應該要給你房屋嘛對不對那至少你剛剛講說困難說這個因為建商罪這個社區裡面就如果有社宅的話可能不好賣那裡面有這個都公之後有公有土地所取得的這個住宅我以前曾經在這邊提過是不是盡量把它納入社會住宅的範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
332.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
348.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
財政部也說你同意這個方向當然細節我們還可以再細緻化那這樣同樣你剛剛講那個狀況那社區除非他這個地方都只要有公共土地他要排除否則的話他怎麼有辦法拒絕你的社區裡面有社宅 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
348.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
362.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
各位委員報告,確實啦,實質上也有,已經有實際上好幾個案例,它本來就已經開始做社宅了。那當然有一些業者或者是買方會有意見。那我們現在正在發展新的方案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
363.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
389.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
相容的方案那這個部分應該我們盡快把那個方案確定報行之後我覺得你講這個是趕快研發我贊成趕快研究我贊成但是我剛剛講這個問題是早就已經存在了你現在都更裡面的公有土地權力變換你就是取回房屋我建議這個房屋盡量不要飆售盡量拿來當社會住宅現在是這樣沒有錯現在就是這樣那也要鼓勵地方政府這樣結果中央政府的分配回來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
390.077 |
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397.821 |
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我非常感謝委員提出這個論述這也是我們希望能夠積極倡議的一個角度那當然就法之面我們跟財政部來討論因為終究那是地方政府的財產那這邊又就是地方政府對於公益的態度的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
418.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
431.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
另外我要請署長請教你有沒有你的土地撥用給地方政府之後地方政府之後把他納入跟他讓回然後蓋一蓋他再去賣房子的這樣你空的土地撥給他就變成他的財源了 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
432.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
453.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
報告委員不可能因為現在只有可以用社宅的方式來撥剛剛委員有提到過比如說我可能只有零星的土地市政府或是縣市政府有一些部分的土地他有在講前面之後的分為黃色的要作為社宅 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
453.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
481.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我們才會同意撥用我們撥用後我們也會做相關的一個管制像三重的那個集美大概有8戶我們就會去做抽查我舉個例子新莊原來的老的派出所分局現在在那邊做一個很大的都更他裡面有一些土地早年是國有撥給他的吧怎麼可能那一大片裡面都完全沒有國有土地那他做了都更之後現在分到房子之後他要拿去標售 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
483.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
491.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
地方政府會有一些的做法比如說他原來有派出手但是他都跟分回來的部分還是有做派出手使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
492.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
518.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
當然派出所一樓的會留一部分做派出所那樓上的呢他拿去標售我現在就是跟你講說這個你也要注意因為不會第一手撥土地來就立刻去督耕了先撥來做什麼東西做一個什麼樣的建設什麼樣的需要過了很多年之後改變人變成他要做督耕然後跟旁邊一起建那建好之後全部都變他的標售這樣是有點凱宗樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
521.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
543.553 |
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是戰鬥他的便宜啦那黃市長我再回頭問你這個問題就是說如果你的容積在獎勵上面的制定可以比較有彈性的話我覺得這不是一條既可以取得社宅又可以節省國家資源這個國家資源的一個方式那這個容積給地方政府這樣去弄 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
544.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
557.379 |
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我覺得還不如中央政府規定一個怎麼樣狀況如果你建商願意這個怎麼樣的回饋條件讓他可以做一些在裡面增加一點彈性的容積比整個地方政府都拿去用這樣好多了 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
559.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
583.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
確實啦在歐洲其實有不少國家有這樣的一種做法那台灣其實有人在倡議那地方政府也嘗試著想要做啦確實如您說的就是那個標準因為因地制於每個縣市的條件會不一樣房價高的地方其實你給他容積就不要那麼多房價低的地方可能要多給一些那這裡面就會出現怎麼去平衡 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
583.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
583.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
600.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
621.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
現在已經4月了,5月到期,這一個月是不是大家會趕掛建造啊?那趕掛建造的結果就是有一些人先掛,其實那個設計將來再改,這個都增加很多的勞費啦。如果你真的這個政策有必要再延續的時候,事實上才內政部可以適度的出來發表說你們可能會考慮延長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
623.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
623.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那杜耕的呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
640.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
664.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
獨耕現在的核心問題倒不在這個地方獨耕的核心問題在審議地方政府在審議的時間拖得太久是啊,常常做獨耕的到蓋牢8年以上啊動不動就8年以上那我們也不斷在跟地方政府溝通怎麼樣把審議的項目標準報告書的規格通通要標準化那不能發散就是審議該審議的東西就好不該審議的就應該不要審 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
667.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
679.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
好,那部長我再次表示我的立場希望你們因為參加督工分回來的房子是要盡可能的拿來做社會住宅是是,我們都會先洽詢你的是好,謝謝吳秉叡委員質詢接著我們請賴世寶委員質詢 |