| IVOD_ID |
150731 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150731 |
| 日期 |
2024-04-01 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-15-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-04-01T09:56:28+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-04-01T10:07:16+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:48 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01d093d00f1a07c08983d7dc8b6b8c94f7510a295be7434bf8ba9b0039caa7a6f943d9a8e4f32a9e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王美惠 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:56:28 - 10:07:16 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-04-01T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員、財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長、財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長就以下事項進行專題報告，並備質詢：(一)2016年至2024年原住民族自治法及都市原住民發展條例立法推動歷程。(二)如何協助地方政府推動都市原住民政策。(三)部落產業發展及食農教育政策辦理情形。(四)部落地方創生計畫執行現況與未來發展。(五)原住民族學校法立法推動情形。(六)原住民族知識體系辦理情形。(七)如何改善原住民族語言推動組織之需求。(八)原住民族語言推動現況與預算執行檢討。(九)如何制定保障土地與居住權益之「原住民族土地使用規則（草案）」。(十)國土計畫法施行後部落自有住宅合法化推動規劃。(十一)部落聯絡道路養護及預算不足之辦理情形。(十二)如何協助原鄉公所基礎設施預算不足之困境。(十三)原住民族家庭服務中心轉型規劃辦理情形。(十四)如何精進原住民族文化健康站並落實老幼共學政策。(十五)原住民族電視臺及廣播電臺之各職類薪資待遇暨升遷制度及人才培育規劃。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等20人擬具「原住民族基本法增訂第二十條之一條文草案」案。(僅詢答)【4月1日及3日兩天一次會】） |
| gazette.lineno |
293 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
王委員美惠：（9時56分）感謝主席。請夷將主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：有請夷將主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
夷將．拔路兒主任委員：委員，你好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
王委員美惠：主委，你好，早安。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
夷將．拔路兒主任委員：早安。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
王委員美惠：本席要跟你探討一些原住民的權利，最近王光祿已經獲判無罪，從2013年開始到總統特赦，這個過程歷經十幾年，就像剛才我們同事說的，在這個過程當中，如果沒有抗壓性、不夠堅強，說實在的，這十幾年他的生活與他面臨司法的壓力有多大？原住民都會上山打獵，在修法的過程當中，我知道你跟警政署也有去當地瞭解如何把這個草案做得更好，把原住民的權利保障得更好。不過在這個過程中，他剛好在這個月獲判無罪；如果有罪，你想想看，對他們長久以來的文化……你看他為了生活去打獵卻發生事情，在這十幾年的過程中，他如何面對司法？再來，我們有機會修這個法，你身為原民會主委，如何看待修不夠的法律要怎樣修得更好？你有什麼見解？請主委說明。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
夷將．拔路兒主任委員：謝謝委員，王光祿這個案子如同委員提到的，十多年來他受到身心的煎熬，這個部分我可以理解，所以地方法院開庭的時候，我還親自出庭表達我們的立場。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
王委員美惠：我知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
夷將．拔路兒主任委員：這幾年我們跟農委會要做一些相關的修法，包括野保法等等的法令，剛剛委員提到原住民自己打獵，這個部分應該是無罪的，他不是要賣，而是自己用的。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
王委員美惠：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
夷將．拔路兒主任委員：包括辦射耳祭應該也要獲得同意才對，這個部分目前法律已經慢慢在修正，我們也很謝謝法院最後為王光祿平反。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
王委員美惠：主委陪他出庭的時候，想到當事人這十幾年面臨司法審判，他覺得原住民的生活本來就是這樣啊，更何況他們的文化也是這樣，從以前到現在什麼人最早來住？也是原住民最早來住在臺灣這塊土地，所以未來我們要怎麼來保障他們才是最重要的。本席跟你說到這個法律，未來我們要修他們的土地法時要怎麼樣保障他們的權利，本席也很擔心，現在有的原住民有時候很老實，你要他來幫忙，他也給你幫忙，不過長期以來，地也不是他的，權利也不是他的，主委，你知道我在說什麼吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
夷將．拔路兒主任委員：有，現在很多保留地的土地交易問題很嚴重，這個我理解。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
王委員美惠：對啦，主委，我覺得你是非常認真，為了我們原住民的權利，我剛才這樣說，你就瞭解了，現在有專門的人在吃這一塊，所以你們要趕快去維護原住民的權利，不只是說收一收，不要到時候原住民的權利都沒了，連他要住的都沒了。主委，在這個過程當中，我覺得原住民的權利也好，他讀書也好，你剛才所報告的，就以我們嘉義市來說，平地有430人，山地有828人，總共有1,258人在嘉義市，不過學校設在阿里山跟達邦，他們要去讀書，這樣方便嗎？主委，他在嘉義市生活，但他要去阿里山、要去達邦讀書。我為什麼要跟你說達邦跟阿里山？因為達邦跟阿里山很近，我也希望你們可以把教育做好，是不是可以調整距離，讓東邊的可以來這間讀比較近，但是兩間都差不多。主委剛才的工作報告在書面，我也覺得還有改善的空間，尤其母語，我說實在的，你剛才也說鼓勵教會跟他們這樣說，說久了就會了，不過有很多原住民的戶口雖然在山上，但已經在市內生活，他要怎樣把他的母語保存下去？像嘉義市，只有輔仁中學有一個專班，不過到目前為止，你知道那間輔導教完之後，有什麼要改善的嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
夷將．拔路兒主任委員：關於學校的部分，我不是很瞭解，也請委員多指教。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
王委員美惠：主委，本席有提供意見的時候，你一定要去瞭解，因為不是只有設，嘉義市有一間而已，我們是要看設立後的效果如何，如果不好，我們是不是要給他資源，還是去看他們的教學如何，不是說錢請一請就好了。主委，未來原住民不管母語也好，權利也好，很多都需要我們去幫忙，就像剛才說的，母語如果不在家教，不在家說，就像我說臺語一樣，如果沒人說，現在像我這樣說臺語的沒幾個了，所以要保存很不簡單。你剛才有說到要請教會來處理，不過教會處理的時候，小孩已經住在市內了，沒辦法去學母語，主委，你有什麼想法嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
夷將．拔路兒主任委員：我覺得語言要從家庭、學校還有社區都要使用，才有機會，就好像委員這幾年都用臺語來質詢我，我的臺語越來越進步，我非常感謝你呀！ |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
王委員美惠：謝謝，大家互相學習嘛。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
夷將．拔路兒主任委員：感謝，是。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
王委員美惠：互相尊重。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
夷將．拔路兒主任委員：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
王委員美惠：主委，我也覺得主委對我們原住民實在很用心，包括報告也好，包括你們去開會也好，都可以說出你自己的母語，是非常光榮的事情，所以本席要跟你說，我們如何要讓原住民這16族族語可以保存下去，這是最重要的，不是你今天跟我談論以後就算了。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
夷將．拔路兒主任委員：不會，不會。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
王委員美惠：我覺得要認真去做，我剛才也跟你說，我們設立學校是要讓原住民的文化也好，學習也好，母語也好，都可以保存下去，這是最重要的。在這裡我提供我的意見，希望你們好好去做，因為說實在的原住民的預算不少，不過錢要花在刀口上，那個刀子利不利要看結果怎樣，不是說每年都在這裡講一講而已。剛才主委說的，我們也鼓勵大家去考試，這是少數，希望可以雨露均霑，譬如我們何時來考一個試，這樣不太好，主委，任何什麼事情都要就原住民的權利，予以保存剛剛我所講的土地，你要去注意。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
夷將．拔路兒主任委員：好，謝謝委員這麼多的關心。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
主席：非常謝謝王美惠委員的質詢，謝謝夷將主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][1] |
繼續請張智倫委員質詢。跟委員會報告一下，李柏毅委員質詢完後，我們休息5分鐘。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
188 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-15-9 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
高金素梅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
張宏陸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
黃建賓 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
麥玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
王美惠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
張智倫 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
黃仁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
李柏毅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
許宇甄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
吳琪銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
徐欣瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
黃捷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
陳瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
林倩綺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
盧縣一 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
蘇巧慧 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
丁學忠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
陳培瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
117 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-04-01 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1132201 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1132201_00003 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員、財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長、財團法人原住民
族語言研究發展基金會董事長就以下事項進行專題報告，並備質詢：(一)2016年至2024年原住民
族自治法及都市原住民發展條例立法推動歷程、 ( 二) 如何協助地方政府推動都市原住民政策、
(三)部落產業發展及食農教育政策辦理情形、(四)部落地方創生計畫執行現況與未來發展、(五)
原住民族學校法立法推動情形、(六)原住民族知識體系辦理情形、(七)如何改善原住民族語言推
動組織之需求、(八)原住民族語言推動現況與預算執行檢討、(九)如何制定保障土地與居住權益
之「原住民族土地使用規則（草案）」、(十)國土計畫法施行後部落自有住宅合法化推動規劃、
(十一)部落聯絡道路養護及預算不足之辦理情形、(十二)如何協助原鄉公所基礎設施預算不足之
困境、(十三)原住民族家庭服務中心轉型規劃辦理情形、(十四)如何精進原住民族文化健康站並
落實老幼共學政策、(十五)原住民族電視臺及廣播電臺之各職類薪資待遇暨升遷制度及人才培育
規劃；二、審查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等20人擬具「原住民族基本法增訂第二十條之一條文草
案」案。（僅詢答） |
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謝謝,我們感謝主席,我們現在議長主委有請議長主委委員你好主委你好,老大老大本市要跟你談到一些原住民的管理在這裏面,在最近我們的觀光路 |
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28.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
45.467 |
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已經判無罪了,在這個規定當中有離空一、三年開始,到這個總統特赦在這個規定裡面十幾年,就是剛才我們像我們的董事說的這個規定當中,若沒有抗壓性及沒有健康 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
55.647 |
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61.214 |
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說實在這十幾年對他的生活、對他面臨的手法有多大。在這裡面本身也覺得說 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
67.509 |
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79.094 |
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我們的修法當中對原住民他們都會發達、都會去申請在這個規定當中我們會修這個草案裡面我也知道你跟經濟事務也有去當地了解如何讓這個草案做好、讓原住民的管理保好 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
95.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
97.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
原住民自治法及都市原住民發展條例立法推動歷程 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
110.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
113.223 |
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你看這邊他為了生活為了發展事情的時候在這個十幾年的過程他如何去面對他的司法再來我們有機會來修這個法 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
128.032 |
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138.158 |
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在你身為原住民的主委你如何擴大我們受不夠的要怎麼來再受得了你有什麼見解請主委你說謝謝委員我想王光復這個案的確 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
146.813 |
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168.154 |
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盧委員所提到的十多年來他受到身心的煎熬這個部分我可以理解所以我跟委員報告所以地方法院開庭的時候我還親自來出庭表達我們的立場所以這幾年我們在跟相關的農委會要做一些相關的修法包括像野保法等等的法令怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
169.555 |
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193.702 |
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剛委員提到的原住民自己用打獵的這個部分應該是無罪的他不是要賣的自己用的 還有包括要辦這個射耳機的部分應該也要獲得同意裁對這個部分目前法律已經慢慢的在修正我們也很謝謝法院給王光路一個最後的平反因為主委你雖然不會去出庭的時候你想到 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
195.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
196.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
董事長、董事長、董事長、董事長、董事長、董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
222.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
227.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
有他們的保障才是最重要的。本席跟你說到這個法律後,我們未來要來收到他們土地法律時,是要如何可以保障他們的管理,因為本席也很高興的。現在有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
241.545 |
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246.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
原住民他有時候很高興的,他有時候想說自己要賺三天,他也讓你賺三天,他又重新買了,地也不是他的,管理也不是他的,主委你知道我要說什麼嗎?有,現在很多保留地那個土地的教育的問題很嚴重,這個我理解,是。 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
264.191 |
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273.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
主委,所以我認為您是非常認真為我們的原住民的管理,因為我剛才這樣說,您就了解了,因為現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
278.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
282.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
有專門人員會參加：所以你們要關心如何讓原住民的權益．不是說看少少的．跟少到好的時候原住民的權益大不容易．要大． |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
294.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
297.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
原住民族及都市原住民發展條例立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
315.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
324.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
若所謂有八百二十倍的都共有一千兩百五十倍的地價利息．若在這個規定當中．若在這個規定當中．若在這個規定當中．若在這個規定當中．若在這個規定當中． |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
337.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
339.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
立法委員會主任委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
353.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
355.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
很接近的,我也希望你們可以讓這個教育做得更好,甚至那個距離讓他說,我們在這裡可以來這間房子,跟這間房子,這邊如果當兵的來這邊房子,沒關係,但是兩間都差不多差不多。 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
374.758 |
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387.468 |
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主委,未來我們這裡,你剛才說的工作報告裡面,在這裡看的時候,我也覺得說,我們還有改善的空間,尤其這個母語,我講實在的,你剛才說,我們也鼓勵教育會,跟他們這樣講,講久了會痛, |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
399.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
403.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
若本身有很多原住民的戶口在森林,他已經都在市內的生活,他要如何讓他的貿易保存下去,所以請自己去。 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
417.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
421.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
與婦人、中學、大廈一間專班的嚴格及保證為之,你知不知那間的福德及教育有什麼要改善的嗎?來,主委。 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
432.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
438.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
的確關於這個學校的部分我不是很了解不是很了解 這樣好 來 主委本學有在提供這個意見的時候你一定要去了解 因為小小小不是跟小說 還有教育區有一間而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
450.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
457.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我們是要看稍後的效果如何,若不好的時候,我們是不是要主管給他,還是去看他們的價錢是如何,不是說錢錢錢就好了。所以主委,我們未來的原住民保育也好,他們的管理也好,很多需要我們去幫忙三天。 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
474.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
481.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
因為剛才講的沒去,你們沒在家的家沒在家的講,就是像我講的台語一樣,若沒人這樣講的時候,現在像台語講的沒幾個了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
489.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
494.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所謂愛國保準的時候,是很不簡單。所以你剛才說到用教育來處理,用教育來處理的時候,有時候孩子一定來在家裡,他沒辦法去學到我們的母語。 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
507.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
533.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
主委你有什麼想法嗎來的確我覺得語言要從家庭、學校還有社區都要使用才有機會就好像委員這幾年都用台語來執行我反而我的台語越來越進步我非常感謝你這樣感謝大家互相合心互相尊重各位主委我也覺得說有的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
535.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
559.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
就是我們原住民、原住民說實在的、很用心的包括報告也好、包括你去開會也好都可以說出你自己的貿易是非常公平的事情所以本身要跟你說我們如何要讓原住民這十六族的可以保存下去這是最要緊的不是你今天跟我談完以後再說 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
565.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
573.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我也覺得要認真去做,我剛才也跟你說,我們設學校是要給原住民的文化好、學習好、擔保育好都可以保存的,這是最重要的,在這裡面我提供我的意見,我們要好好去做,因為說實在原住民裡面的醫生 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
593.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
598.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
無咎,但只要開啟土地,土地會不會來,是要看結果,不是單單在這裡說說而已,剛才主委說說,我們也鼓勵大家去考慮。 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
616.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
635.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這是少數,我們也可以以入進展,譬如我們當時來靠一個市,這樣不很好,所以主委,我們要任何什麼事情,可以讓原住民的權利保準,剛才我所說的土地要去注意以上。 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
641.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
641.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
謝謝委員這麼多的關心 |