| IVOD_ID |
150320 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150320 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-20-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-25T09:53:40+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-25T10:07:31+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:51 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3b2b855ee35a005bb4fdf919a67504d18506765f624e20d0f8ba9b0039caa7a69aee49d70c0691da5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
賴士葆 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:53:40 - 10:07:31 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-25T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處朱主計長澤民、金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧、國家通訊傳播委員會、法務部、內政部、數位發展部就「新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領1.5版」預算執行情形及成效進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【3月25日及27日二天一次會】） |
| gazette.lineno |
366 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
賴委員士葆：（9時53分）謝謝主席及各位先進。先有請朱主計長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請朱主計長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
賴委員士葆：我先請教一個很簡單的問題，請你簡短回答，現在電價要漲，有些單位受不了了，比如臺大都講話了，有沒有可能請主計總處這裡給學校補貼，以及醫院，有沒有可能給它補貼？以及捷運方面、TPASS等等的，有沒有可能？給我一句話！ |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
朱主計長澤民：跟委員報告，對學校是有一個適當的措施，對醫院我還要去查，對捷運的話，我必須說明一下，臺鐵以及北捷，因為TPASS的使用，我記得北捷已經增加了三十幾億的補助，不是電價調整，每年就有補助它三十幾億，臺鐵就有補助十幾億…… |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
賴委員士葆：那TPASS呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
朱主計長澤民：就是TPASS。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
賴委員士葆：好，所以捷運不用說了，學校還在…… |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
朱主計長澤民：捷運不是我們管的，我們尊重，我是說我們對它有一些TPASS的補助。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
賴委員士葆：那醫院呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
朱主計長澤民：醫院是怎麼樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
賴委員士葆：補助啊！補貼啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
朱主計長澤民：補貼我剛才講的是年度。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
賴委員士葆：學校呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
朱主計長澤民：醫院我不曉得，我要去查一下，學校不是補助，是不調漲，不是補助。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
賴委員士葆：學校確定不調漲了？ |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
朱主計長澤民：據我知道…… |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
賴委員士葆：確定了？現在大學都說要漲，這個確定了？ |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
朱主計長澤民：據我知道，上個禮拜五的時候行政院有開會，對某些是不漲的，社福機構沒有漲、學校沒有漲，醫院的話，我要去查一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以可以確定的是學校不漲、社福機構不漲？ |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
朱主計長澤民：醫院我要再查一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
賴委員士葆：醫院還在考慮？ |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
朱主計長澤民：不是在考慮，我要去看決策，因為這是禮拜五在行政院做的決策。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
賴委員士葆：什麼時候可以有答案對外宣布？ |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
朱主計長澤民：行政院好像已經…… |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
賴委員士葆：沒有，行政院還沒有。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
朱主計長澤民：我去瞭解一下，這是內部會議。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
賴委員士葆：好，這個要考慮到整體，特別是弱勢團體。主計長請回，請金管會黃主委以及數發部李次長。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
主席：請黃主委、數發部李懷仁政次。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
黃主任委員天牧：委員早。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
賴委員士葆：先請教黃主委，金管會的AI防詐怎麼防？現在有金融的AI防詐訓練模型，國內銀行是否只限制用國內運算，國外銀行用國外運算可不可以？這個你知道嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，目前國內銀行只有部分的項目用AI，並沒有很廣泛，金管會也有訂定一個AI原則和指引，AI防詐部分我有責成銀行局和公會特別要注意將來這部分怎麼處理。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
賴委員士葆：我要強調的是，這些客戶資料的運算是不是都在國內？銀行法第十六條規定了，如果稽核銀行的資訊系統、AI系統、AI模型，請問要怎麼稽核？如果它在國外的話要怎麼稽核？ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
黃主任委員天牧：關於委員垂詢的問題，我只是想釐清你的問題，你的問題是銀行的AI防詐模型，還是銀行被AI詐騙？我不太清楚您的意思。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
賴委員士葆：防詐、防詐，我講的是防詐。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
黃主任委員天牧：銀行的AI防詐模型，我不太確定銀行現在有沒有，我請局長說明一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
主席：請莊局長。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
莊局長琇媛：報告委員，現在銀行在使用AI的時候，大部分都是在做一些風險控管，剛剛委員垂詢的，是不是會把資料傳送，如果銀行要把資料傳送到外面去做AI運算的時候，因為這個牽涉到跟客戶的資料有關，原則上它要來跟我們提出申請。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
賴委員士葆：目前沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
莊局長琇媛：目前沒有。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
賴委員士葆：政府導入111，幾乎各部會都有，財政部也有，金管會可不可以協助銀行導入111？因為民眾常常接到銀行的假簡訊，我這裡就有一張自來水營業處的帳單，上面就有寫簡訊短碼111才是北水處官方簡訊，一定要有111，其他各部會都導入了，金管會好像並沒有要求銀行導入111，有沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
李次長懷仁：委員，我先說明一下，公股銀行的部分，本週我們就會開會確定導入的時間，所以公股銀行都沒有問題了。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以公股銀行本週就可以導入111？ |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
李次長懷仁：本週會開會確定他們導入的時程，只要走政府採購，但是應該都沒問題，只是導入時間的狀況。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
賴委員士葆：民間的呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
李次長懷仁：民間的部分，我們其實之前就有詢問過，有些民間銀行想要用自己的簡碼，他們想要去跟電信公司採購自己的簡碼。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
賴委員士葆：金管會如果需要你的協助，數發部可以協助嗎。 |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
李次長懷仁：完全沒有問題，積極全力配合。 |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
賴委員士葆：第二個，我請教李次長，你知道暗網嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
李次長懷仁：我知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
賴委員士葆：臺灣的個資，在座的everybody here不要懷疑，你的資料全都露，我這裡擷取了9.8萬筆將近10萬筆的股民資料，只要188USDT，這是另外的幣值，但是跟美金差不多，188美金等於不到6,000臺幣，所有的股民資料全部都在這裡面。主委，你要不要針對這個事情講一下話？暗網，可以在這裡買賣！ |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
黃主任委員天牧：如果有這個事情，當然我們要…… |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
賴委員士葆：資料已經給你看了，就是有這種事情啊！次長知道嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
李次長懷仁：暗網上面一直持持續續都有這種說法，但是資料可能要經過比對才能確認是不是真實，因為它常常有過去的各種資料去綜整。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
賴委員士葆：你們有沒有追蹤、防堵、管理能力？ |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
李次長懷仁：跟委員報告，政府整體來說有，數位部沒有在主動追蹤，但是數位部有參加情資聯防。 |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
賴委員士葆：我現在只有揭露股民的資料而已，其他的資料、個資早就露光光了，而且賣的都不貴，我們2,300萬人民的個資，賣的話差不多一千多塊美金而已，我說的這個數字對吧？次長跟我點頭是同意嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
李次長懷仁：要確認這個資料的真實性。 |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
賴委員士葆：如果正確，這個都是在網路上抓到的，有人進去暗網裡面把資料弄下來給我看的。 |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
李次長懷仁：網路上也有人買了被騙的。 |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
賴委員士葆：你們先不要走，我再請法務部黃次長，還有刑事警察局有沒有人來？ |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
主席：請法務部黃謀信次長、刑事警察局黃壬聰副局長。 |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
賴委員士葆：幾位長官都有用LINE嗎？都有用LINE，有吧？都有。臺灣有97%的人使用通訊軟體LINE，現在詐騙集團用最多的通訊軟體就是LINE，結果我們刑事警察局交給檢察官、交給法院來回了不起2天，但是把這個文傳到LINE去等回復要1個月，請問李次長或黃次長，你們有沒有邀請LINE來，跟它講請它快一點，不然這個詐騙1個月以後就「火化去矣」！就不用玩了！有沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
李次長懷仁：有，我們已經好幾次請LINE來開會，也有請檢調同仁一起來開會。 |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
賴委員士葆：黃次長。 |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，不只在我們負責打詐的臺灣高等檢察署，甚至本部已經多次找LINE公司來就LINE資料提供的迅速性以及下架機制，已經討論過非常多次了。 |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
賴委員士葆：結果就是1個月，討論了半天還是1個月，你不覺得太慢了嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
黃次長謀信：因為LINE畢竟是私人公司，它有它的政策，所以它對於相關資料的調取，就公司政策是採一個比較嚴格的方式，它必須要有法院的搜索令狀才願意提供。 |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
賴委員士葆：當然是經過你們，我剛剛已經講了，你沒有仔細聽，經過法院跟它調資料，1個月才給你們，欺負我們，我告訴你們，其實LINE在國安的部分，跟我們政府是有綠色通道的，政府直接跟LINE就政治的相關案件、政治偵防部分，LINE的回應是很快的，它有綠色通道。但是對於我們關心的詐騙沒有，你剛剛講公事公辦，因為你們兩個都不敢得罪LINE，財政部也在這裡，我們跟財政部講Meta、FB有稅的問題，財政部找他們來很快就解決了。為什麼你們兩位長官以及兩個這麼大的部會跟LINE講了半天，它就是不買單？為什麼會這樣子呢？為什麼要1個月，1個月回來就沒有用了，你知道嗎？我最近還接到選民服務，陳情人被騙了3,000萬，就是透過LINE詐騙投資，他被騙了3,000萬，他所有的儲蓄、所有退休所要的錢，全部，他人都快自殺了、瘋掉了，以前還有2,000萬的，動輒千萬，都是透過LINE這個通訊軟體這樣被騙，結果你們擺爛了，你們兩個部會，法務部跟數發部，找它來談就是1個月，你看我們內部，刑事警察局到檢察官到法院，2天程序走完，給LINE 1個月，這個絕對有辦法來請它縮短，對吧？次長，兩位次長。 |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
李次長懷仁：先跟委員報告一下，過去在調閱的門檻或者是警方請他們提供資料門檻，我們已經有成功協調它降下來，這個部分我們也會再跟LINE說明、要求。 |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
賴委員士葆：對啊！你們一定要跟它講，要請它縮短，1個月就來不及了啦！同意吧？黃次長。 |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
黃次長謀信：同意，完全同意。 |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
賴委員士葆：最後一個小問題，也是很重要的問題，LINE可不可以監聽？次長。 |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
黃次長謀信：這個是一個技術性的問題，就現狀、我個人所知來講，LINE目前的通訊監察是有它一定的困難度。 |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
賴委員士葆：不是，我問你，你回答我Yes、No嘛，因為主席站起來了。 |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
黃次長謀信：對，目前…… |
| gazette.blocks[75][0] |
賴委員士葆：可以監聽嘛！對不對？技術沒問題吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
黃次長謀信：因為它是有一個保密設定…… |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
賴委員士葆：不是，技術有沒有問題啦？ |
| gazette.blocks[77][1] |
請問李次長，技術有沒有問題？監聽LINE的內容有沒有問題？ |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
李次長懷仁：一定時間上可以…… |
| gazette.blocks[79][0] |
賴委員士葆：啊？ |
| gazette.blocks[80][0] |
李次長懷仁：技術上要有一定的門檻，但是可以做得到。 |
| gazette.blocks[81][0] |
賴委員士葆：簡單白話文就是說沒有問題，所以各位用LINE通訊什麼之類的，政府在後面看著，要小心。 |
| gazette.blocks[82][0] |
李次長懷仁：委員，政府沒有辦法。 |
| gazette.blocks[83][0] |
主席：好，謝謝，請回。 |
| gazette.blocks[84][0] |
賴委員士葆：不好意思，我再補一句。幾年前我就問法務部次長，那時候法務部次長叫陳明堂，幾年前在司法委員會就清楚說LINE可以監聽。 |
| gazette.blocks[85][0] |
主席：好，查一下，你們再回復。 |
| gazette.blocks[85][1] |
下一位質詢請郭國文郭召委。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
298 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-20-5 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
羅明才 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
吳秉叡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
王世堅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
顏寬恒 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
李彥秀 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
徐巧芯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
林楚茵 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
林思銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
王美惠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
陳冠廷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
黃健豪 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[26] |
葉元之 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[27] |
陳玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
211 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-03-25 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1132001 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1132001_00009 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請行政院主計總處朱主計長澤民、金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧、國家通訊傳播委員
會、法務部、內政部、數位發展部就「新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領1.5版」預算執行情形及成
效進行專題報告，並備質詢 |
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1132001_00018 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
2.853 |
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謝謝主席及各位先進先有請朱主計長請朱主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
13.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
42.005 |
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我覺得很簡單的問題請教請你簡短回答現在店價要漲有些單位受不了了比如說台大都講話了學校有沒有可能主計總處這裡給他補貼然後呢以及這個醫院有沒有可能給他補貼以及這個捷運部門面T-pass等等的有沒有可能給我一句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
43.766 |
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64.132 |
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跟委員報告對學校是有一個適當的措施對醫院我還要去查那對捷運的話我必須說明一下臺鐵那個以及北捷的因為TPOS的使用我們已經大概是北捷有增加我覺得是增加了三十幾億的補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
65.672 |
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90.493 |
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不是電價調整每年就有補助他三十幾億台鐵就有補助十幾億那T-pass勒?就是T-pass勒所以捷運沒夠老學校還在捷運不是我們管我們是尊重我們是說我們對他有一些T-pass的補助醫院勒? |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
92.123 |
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117.429 |
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醫院醫院是怎麼樣補助啊補貼啦補貼我剛才講的是年度啦是年度醫院學校咧學校醫院我必曉得我要去查一下學校是有補助的不是補助啦就是不調漲不是補助學校確定不調漲了對據我知道確定喔那個現在大學都說你要漲啊這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
119.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
129.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
對那個是那個據我知道那個是上個禮拜上個禮拜五的時候行政院有開開一個會對某些事不長的適不長社福機構沒有長學校沒有長阿醫院的話我要去查一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
135.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
162.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
所以可以確定的就是學校部長上午機構部長醫院還在考慮不是在考慮我要去看那個因為他是禮拜五做的一個決策什麼時候可以有答案對外宣布什麼時候可以有答案對外宣布他好像行政院已經好像是沒有沒有行政院沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
163.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
180.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那個我去瞭解一下他內部會議的你這個要考慮到整體了特別弱勢團體請請回請回請一下金管會的黃主委以及數發部的理事長黃主委數發部請李懷仁先請教黃主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
190.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
205.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
金管會的AI防詐怎麼防啊現在有金融的AI防詐訓練模型國內銀行是我只限制國內運算國外銀行用國外運算可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
208.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
225.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
目前國內銀行有部分的項目做用AI,並沒有很廣泛。我們有進行一個AI指引,AI原則跟指引。那至於說AI防詐部分,我有責成銀行局特別要跟工會特別要注意將來這部分怎麼處理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
227.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
247 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我要強調的是這些客戶的資料他的運算是不是都在國內銀行法16條規定了如果結合銀行的資訊系統AI系統AI模型請問要怎麼結合如果他在國外的話怎麼結合 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
248.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
268.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
報告委員您垂詢的這個問題我不應該我只是想釐清你的問題是銀行的AI防詐模型還是硬要被AI詐騙我不太清楚您的意思防詐防詐我講是防詐銀行的AI防詐模型我不太確定銀行現在有沒有局長說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
270.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
271.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
目前沒有?目前沒有?好!有一個! |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
299.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
317.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
政府導入111、111幾乎各部會財政部就有這個金管會可不可以協助銀行導入111民眾因為常常接到的銀行是假簡訊我這裡就一張這個是自來水營業處 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
321.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
340.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
他這裡就有寫喔解訊短碼111才是北水族官方的解訊一定有111其他各部會都導入了就金管會這裡好像並沒有要求引用導入111有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
342.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
368.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
委員這我先說明一下公股銀行的部分本週我們就會開會確定導入的時間所以公股銀行都沒有問題了所以公股銀行今今本週可以要要要進去本週會開會導入他們導入的時程但是只要走政府採購細節會去但是應該都沒有問題只是導入時間的狀況但是民間的呢民間的部分我們其實是之前就有詢問過民間銀行有的他們想要用自己的檢碼他們想要去跟電信公司採購自己的檢碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
371.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
384.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這個經國衛如果需要你的協助,你數位發展部可以協助嗎?完全沒有問題,全力配合。好。第二個,我請教李次長,你知道暗網嗎?我知道。 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
385.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
412.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
暗網臺灣的個資在做每一部分 here不要懷疑你的資料全都錄這裡我就擷取了一段9.8萬將近10萬筆的股民資料188塊美金因為是dt是另外筆指但是跟美金差不多188塊美金就是不到6000塊台幣所有的股民資料全部都在這裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
413.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
419.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那個主委你要不要針對這個事情講一下話暗網可以在這裡買賣我想我們如果有這個事情當然我們要資料已經給你看了就有這個事情了來來市長知道嗎市長來這個暗網上面一直持續都有這種說法但是資料可能要經過比頓才能確認是不是真實因為它常常有過去的各種資料去重整 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
443.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
465.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
你們有沒有追蹤黃獨管理人力?各位委員報告政府整體來說有那這個部分數位部沒有在主動追蹤但是數位部有參加親自聯防這個啊有些就是只有揭露股門的資料而已喔其他的資料各自走去露光光的而且賣的都不貴喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
466.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
475.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
兩千三百萬我們兩千三百萬人民的個資賣的話大概就差不多一千多塊美金而已啊對吧 我這數字對吧車長給我點頭是同意嗎是 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
481.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
483.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我們網路上也有人買了被騙的。好,那我再請法務部,你們先不要走。 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
505.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
509.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
法務部的黃次長還有刑事警察局的黃仁聰副局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
524.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
552.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
臺灣的97%的97%使用LINELINE通訊軟體現在詐騙集團用的最多的通訊軟體就是LINE結果我們西市警察局交給檢察官交給法院來回了不起兩天但是把這個文傳到LINE去回復一個月回復一個月我就問理事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
555.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
576.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
請問理事長有沒有邀請,或者請那個黃市長都可以喔有沒有邀請LINE來跟你們說請他快點啦這個詐騙一個月以後的會花起啊就不用你了啦喔有沒有有這個我們已經好幾次請LINE來開會也有請解調的同仁一起來開會沒有黃市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
578.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
589.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
各位報告,不只在我們負責打詐的台灣高等檢察署甚至本部已經多次的找賴公司來救他賴資料的提供的迅速性以及下架機制已經討論過非常多次了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
593.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
619.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
您不覺得太慢了嗎?更為報告因為賴他這公司畢竟是私人公司他有他的政策嘛所以他對於相關的資料的調取他就他公司的政策才一個比較嚴格的一個方式他必須要有法院的搜索令狀他才願意提供那但是經過你們勒?經過我剛剛已經有講了你們只是聽經過法院勒?經過法院給他調資料勒?經過法院勒?一個月才給你啊其實我們勒?其實啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
623.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
644.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我告訴你們LINE跟在國安這一部分跟我們政府是有綠色通道的有綠色通道直接啊我們政府直接要LINE就政治的相關的案件政治證案這一部分LINE是回應很快的它有綠色通道 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
645.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
649.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
為什麼你們兩位長官集兩個這麼大的部會跟LINE講了半天他就不買單為什麼這樣子呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
673.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
681.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
為什麼一個月回來都沒有啊?你知道嗎?幾個天我最近接到行民服務曾經的人被騙了三千萬就是透過LINE |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
689.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
689.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
717.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
742.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
你看我們內部行事警察局到檢察官、到法院兩天全局總管一個月這個絕對有辦法來請他縮短,對吧?市長先跟委員報告一下過去在調院的門檻或者是警方請他們提供資料的門檻我們已經有成功協調他這樣下來這個部分我們以後再跟賴說明要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
743.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
764.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
你們一定跟他講要請他縮短啦,這一個月不會付錢啦,同意嗎?黃市長,最後一個小問題,也是很重要的問題。LINE可不可以監聽?市長這個是一個技術性的問題啦,就現狀我個人所知來講LINE目前通訊監察是有它一定的困難度。 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
765.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
767.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
一定時間上可以技術上要有一定的門檻但是可以做得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
785.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
788.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
幾年前我做法務部次長那時候法務部次長叫陳明堂 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
812.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
817.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
就清楚在幾年前在司法委員會說LINE可以監聽 |