| IVOD_ID |
150251 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150251 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-36-8 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-21T11:48:27+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-21T12:01:16+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:49 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1be549810cdc3052f1d56f881f06c29b7dd815aba809727bf8ba9b0039caa7a6d6e6be9007d987755ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
傅崐萁 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:48:27 - 12:01:16 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-21T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：邀請立法院秘書長列席就「中華民國總統至立法院進行國情報告及詢答模式之建議」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
| gazette.lineno |
788 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
傅委員崐萁：（11時48分）我先把權益問題表達一下，在場所有的…… |
| gazette.blocks[0][1] |
大法官請坐，中華民國民進黨派的第16席大法官請坐。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
柯委員建銘：傅總召，現在開會沒有權宜問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
傅委員崐萁：主席，每個委員都有他的權益，當主席已經宣布停止討論以後，就不可以再容許任何人干擾議事，因為他們的烏賊戰術可以搞到下午，所以討論時間是有其一定的範圍，討論完就開始做會議處理、提案處理，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][1] |
我請兩位秘書長。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
主席：請兩位秘書長。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
傅委員崐萁：柯建銘，不要走。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
周秘書長萬來：傅委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
傅委員崐萁：司法院吳秘書長，本席有一件事情要先肯定一下吳三龍秘書長，您剛剛有一個非常重要的意思表達，我想剛剛大家在這裡也都聽到了，就是剛剛委員所提出的提案決議，應該司法院本於職權來調查，調查完之後只要是社會矚目的事情，司法院要固守人民信賴價值的底線，必須讓人民能夠瞭解，我們也尊重司法院獨立調查，但是只要報本院就可以，如果送監察院，小芸在嗎？8次嫖妓、對價清楚，竟然腐敗到不能再腐敗的監察院！只有2個人沒有麻木不仁，這種院還在中華民國臺灣，羞恥！所以吳秘書長你沒有讓監察院羞辱司法院，那是對的，你至少還有捍衛你的底線，本席沒有請你回答，所以剛剛這樣做是對的，這樣我們會更尊重吳秘書長。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][1] |
本席現在回到我們討論的主要議題，我們必須要再一次地強調，國會是承載2,300萬民意的地方，比任何一個歷任總統所擁有的民意都更高，當今現任當選的總統只有40%的民意，而新任的國會卻是有百分之百的全國民意，在這裡做所有國家事務的監督。本席要再強調一下，主席抱歉，大家也在溝通、也在學習，只要是立法院必須要負責審議預算的部會或是五院，立法院都有必要行監督之職，沒有什麼叫院際分際，不然預算就不要送到立法院來！這件事講一次就好，不要講很多次，講很多次是閹割立法院、羞辱自己而已，本席今天聽到第二次了，第一次本席沒有說話，但是再聽到第二次是很誇張的事情！只要預算要送到立法院來，當然要受到立法院整體的監督，因為立法院要對人民負責，這預算為什麼可以通過？執行的情況怎麼樣？有沒有人謀不臧？我們本來就應該要監督。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][2] |
另外，對於我們來講，今天特別在這裡……我想我們周秘書長，剛剛謝龍介委員有提到相關的事務，本席真的要表達意見，為什麼共同採購契約還有立法院所找來的這些協力廠商，這個價格都如此地離譜，一個國會在負責監督所有的國家單位，我們這裡都沒有辦法自清的話，何以面對國人？所以秘書長，其實本席剛剛蠻失望的，您說你沒有建議韓院長，如果您真的沒有建議韓院長的話，我覺得秘書長你要再考慮一下，因為您回到立法院之後…… |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
周秘書長萬來：報告委員，不是，我要說明，剛才謝委員是問人事，人事我沒有建議權，我要先補充一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
傅委員崐萁：好的。但是現在所有在立法院的這些奇怪現象一定要把它清乾淨，其實秘書長是負責所有大局的人，院長、副院長凡事都是要多請教秘書長，事實上就是如此，秘書長本來就是綜管業務的嘛，本來就是這樣嘛，所以下面有貪贓枉法、違法失職，本來秘書長就要把他揪出來、就要來處理。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][1] |
本席在這裡再分享一個過去發生的事情，過去有一個臺銀的共同採購契約，當時政府一直在補助所有縣市或鄉鎮公所要將全部的水銀燈改成LED燈。本席就很好奇，當時我擔任縣長，我就問了經濟部能源局，為什麼要用共同採購契約，我聽不懂，因為他們報的價格大概是市場上的三到四倍，而且接受國家的補助、能源局的補助竟然只能用共同採購契約，所以本席當時擔任縣長的時候，縣政府拒絕這個補助，結果直接補助到鄉鎮公所，補助完之後就來抓了，一半的鄉鎮長被抓了，一半的議員被抓了，LED採購案，為什麼國家容許這麼大的range讓他們去發放回扣？所以這個都是啊！因為當時本席不是立法委員，所以這個問題到今天我一直都很好奇，為什麼可以放縱國家到這種情況，這個可能要請司法院吳秘書長去瞭解為什麼有這麼離譜的狀況。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][2] |
我想今天大家爭執的重點還是總統到立法院來做國情報告，過去總統一直沒有辦法來，因為在野黨認為這是他的秀場，不要讓他來這裡作秀，所以一直阻擋總統到立法院做國情報告，但是今天的在野黨，我們要在這裡清楚明確地表達，我們是可以讓總統來到立法院做國情報告，但是能不能即問即答，這是今天我們在討論的問題，本席要再三表達，在野黨本來就有監督的天職，而不是讓立法院成為運動馬戲團這種秀場，不是來這裡作秀的，而是要清楚地表達國家未來的方向要走到哪裡去，要很明確地讓民眾能夠瞭解。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][3] |
所以本席在這裡，讓大家看一下兩張自封為民進黨所派的第16席大法官，柯建銘柯總召在當時馬總統要不要到立法院做國情報告的時候，我們看一下這些人現在還滿多人在的，吳秉叡還在，潘孟安聽說要去高雄了還有哪裡，柯總召還在，我們要特別強調一下，不要動輒……今天一個泱泱的執政黨動不動就罵在野毀憲亂政，所有在野黨所提出來的法案、修正案、國會陽光法案都說是毀憲亂政，我們要再次強調，國民黨提出的國會改革五法就是當時民進黨2015年所提出來的，而且當時馬英九總統是不是能到立法院做國情報告，柯總召講得非常清楚，就是即問即答，我想這個大家都看得到，就是即問即答。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][4] |
所以我想今天為什麼民進黨一個標榜最清新、最廉能的政黨在短短30年腐敗成這個樣子，過去他們所主張的清廉價值現在都跑到哪裡去了？所以本席在這裡真的是覺得很奇怪，因為本席見證了民進黨三十多年的成長歷程，但是沒有想到腐化至此，而且今天繼續在執政，只得到40%的民意，有沒有謙卑的來看待所有在野黨提出的這些法案？有沒有大家一起來商量是不是對國家未來的發展更好？有沒有好好思考這個問題？為什麼執政黨的立委不是對人民負責，而是對他的黨負責？天天監督在野黨國會議員，我們應該是大家一起來討論，把所有腐敗的情況讓陽光能夠照進來，而不是用所有的手段來杯葛在野黨。我覺得周秘書長你下次可以很勇敢地告訴他們，柯總召你依然在立法院，你當時民進黨的堅持是什麼、你們的理想是什麼？到今天還存在嗎？這樣子回答他們就可以了。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][5] |
也謝謝吳秘書長，因為有很多司法發生的問題我們不要統稱為個案，今天為什麼會受到人民的質疑？整體的信任度為什麼拉不起來？如果我們今天用一個良善的角度來看，黃國昌總召可能提出的也是讓我們的政府有一個防腐的機制，讓大家一起來省思、一起來討論、一起來面對問題、一起來解決問題，讓人民能夠更加信任司法，我覺得吳秘書長也應該欣然接受，沒有什麼吾不可告人也，這邊就是我們司法必須要讓國人能夠相信。所以今天只提出了一個提案而已，秘書長應該覺得很開心，表示這段期間大家對司法的質疑竟然只提了一個個案而已，這表示最近的情況有比較好，所以我覺得我們大家共勉之，國家好，人民好，我們擔任國會議員才有他的價值，好不好？謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
周秘書長萬來：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
主席（羅委員智強代）：現在請吳宗憲委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
114 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-36-8 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
吳宗憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
沈發惠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
謝龍介 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
莊瑞雄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
翁曉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
林思銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
吳思瑤 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
傅崐萁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
柯建銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
徐欣瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
陳俊宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
49 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-03-21 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1131701 |
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1131701_00003 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請立法院秘書長列席就「中華民國總統至立法院進行國情報告及詢答模式之建議」進行專題報
告，並備質詢 |
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2.45 |
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4.13 |
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主席每個委員都有他的權益 |
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29.698 |
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50.136 |
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當主席已經宣布聽制討論以後就不可以再容許任何人再干擾議事因為他們的誣賊戰術可以搞到下午所以討論時間是有其一定的範圍討論完就開始做會議處理提案處理謝謝我們請兩位秘書長請兩位秘書長柯建銘你不要跑啊 |
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61.705 |
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85.675 |
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委員好委員好吳秘書長本席有一件事情要先肯定一下這個秘書長吳秘書長您剛剛有一個非常重要的意思表達我想在這裡啊剛剛大家也都聽到了就是 |
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89.007 |
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115.488 |
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剛剛委員所提出的提案的決議應該司法院本域之前來調查調查完之後只要是社會矚目的事情我們司法院要固守其人民信賴的價值的底線必須讓人民能夠了解我們也尊重司法院獨立調查但是只要報本院就可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
117.259 |
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146.357 |
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如果送監察院．小雲在馬．八次嫖妓．對價清楚．竟然腐敗到不能再腐敗的監察院．只有兩個人．沒有麻木不仁．這種院．還在送華民國台灣．羞恥．所以．吳秘書長．你讓監察院沒有來羞辱司法院． |
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147.478 |
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149.259 |
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國會是承載2300萬民意的地方 |
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175.748 |
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203.24 |
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比任何一個歷任的總統所擁有的名譽都更高當今現任當選的總統只有40%的名譽而新一任的國會卻是有百分之百的全國的名譽在這裡來做所有國家事務的監督本期要再強調一下也請主席抱歉我們也在大家也在溝通也在學習 |
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204.924 |
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230.259 |
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只要是立法院必須要負責審議預算的部會還是五院立法院都有必要行監督之職沒有什麼叫院計分計不來預算就不要送到立法院來這個是講一次就好 不要講很多次 |
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231.662 |
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257.817 |
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講很多這是閹割立法院 羞辱自己而已本席今天聽到第二次了第一次本席沒有說話但是再聽到第二次是很誇張的事情只要立法院只要預算要送到立法院來當然要送到立法院的整體的負責因為立法院要對人民負責這預算為什麼可以通過執行的情況怎麼樣有沒有人模不章我們本來就應該要監督的另外齁 |
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261.735 |
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263.976 |
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為什麼共同採購契約還有立法院所找來的協力廠商這個價格都如此離譜 |
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288.496 |
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310.008 |
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一個國會在負責監督所有的國家的各單位我們這裡都沒有辦法自清的話可以面對國人所以秘書長其實本席剛剛蠻失望的齁您說你沒有建議韓院長齁如果你真的沒有建議韓院長的話 |
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312.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
338.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我覺得秘書長 您要再考慮一下因為您回到立法院之後我要說明 剛才謝委員是問這一個連市連市我沒有建議權 我要先補充一下但是呢 所有在立法院現在的這些奇怪的現象一定要把它清乾淨其實秘書長是負責所有大局的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
341.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
368.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
院長 副院長凡事都是要多請教秘書長事實上就是如此秘書長本來就是中管業務的嘛本來就是這樣嘛所以下面有貪贓枉法違法私持本來秘書長就要把他揪出來就要來處理本期在這裡再分享一個過去發生的事情過去所謂有一個台銀的共同採購契約 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
370.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
396.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
當時政府一直在補助所有的縣市或鄉鎮公所全部的水營燈要改成LED的燈本席就很好奇當時我在擔任縣長我就問了經濟部能源局為什麼要用共同採購契約我聽不懂因為他們報的價格是大概市場上的3到4倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
398.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
425.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
而且接受國家的補助 內應局的補助竟然只能用共同採購契約所以本期 當時當任縣長的時候縣政府拒絕拒絕這個補助結果呢 直接補助到鄉鎮公所補助完之後呢 就來抓了一半的鄉鎮長被抓了 一半的議員被抓了LED採購案為什麼國家容許這麼大的Range讓他們去發放回購 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
428.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
452.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
所以這個都是因為當時本席不是立法委員所以這個問題我一直到今天都很好奇為什麼可以放縱國家到這種情況這個可能也要請這個司法院我們吳秘書長也要去了解為什麼有這麼離譜的狀況我想我們今天就這個所謂今天大家爭執的重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
454.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
482.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
還是總統到立法院來做國情報告過去總統一直沒有辦法來因為在野黨認為說這是他的秀場不要讓他在這裡來做秀所以呢一直阻擋總統到立法院的國情報告但是今天的在野黨我們要在這裡清楚明確的表達我們是可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
486.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
503.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
讓總統來到立法院做國情報告但是能不能即問即答這是今天我們在討論的問題本席要再三表達政委黨本來就有他監督的天職而不是讓立法院成為 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
506.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
531.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
運動馬戲團的這種秀場不是來這裡做秀的而是要清楚的表達對國家未來的方向要走到哪裡去要很明確的讓民眾能夠了解所以我在這裡本席在這裡我們看一下兩張這個自封為民進黨所派的第16席大法官柯敬明柯總召在當時馬總統要不要到立法院做國情報告的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
532.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
532.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
不要動輒 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
555.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
581.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
今天一個泱泱的執政黨動不動就罵在野叫做毀憲亂政所有在野黨所提出來的法案修正案國會陽光法案都說是毀憲亂政我們要再次強調國民黨提出的國會改革無法就是當時民進黨2015年所提出來的而且當時馬英九總統是不是能到立法院做國情報告下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
583.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
611.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
柯總召講得非常清楚就是急問急答我想這個大家都看得到就是急問急答所以我想今天為什麼民進黨一個包辦最精心最連任的一個政黨短短30年腐敗成這個樣子過去他們所主張的青年價值現在都跑到哪裡去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
612.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
639.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以本席在這裡真的是很奇怪因為本席見證了30多年民進黨成長的歷程但是沒有想到腐化至此而且今天繼續在執政繼續在執政只得到40%的民意有沒有謙卑的來看待所有在黨提出的這些法案有沒有大家一起來商量是不是對國家未來的發展更好 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
641.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
669.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
有沒有好好思考這個問題為什麼執政黨的立委不是對人民負責而是對他的黨負責天天來監督在野黨 國會議員我們應該是大家一起來討論把所有腐敗的情況讓陽光能夠照進來而不是用所有的手段來杯葛在野黨所以啊 我覺得那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
670.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
699.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
秘書長 周秘書長你下次可以很勇敢的告訴他們柯總召你依然在立法院你當時民進黨的堅持是什麼你們的理想是什麼到今天還存在嗎這樣子回答他們就可以了那個也謝謝吳秘書長因為啊有很多司法發生的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
700.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
700.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
黃國昌總召 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
721.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
747.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
也是讓我們的政府有一個防腐的機制讓大家一起來審思一起來討論一起來面對問題一起來解決問題讓人民能夠更加信任司法我覺得吳秘書長也是應該欣然接受沒有什麼無不可告人也今天就是我們司法必須要讓國人能夠相信所以今天只提出了一個提案而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
749.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
766.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
民主黨應該覺得很開心表示說這段期間大家對司法的質疑竟然只提了一個個案而已這表示說最近的情況有比較好所以我覺得我們大家共勉之國家好 人民好我們擔任國會議員才有它的價值好不好 謝謝 |