| IVOD_ID |
150206 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150206 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-19-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-21T09:56:41+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-21T10:06:32+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:51 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1be549810cdc30521b09a061fe06cee8e8dac5750a339bf8f8ba9b0039caa7a66631682cceb1dba85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張啓楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:56:41 - 10:06:32 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-21T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請經濟部部長就「當前供水情勢檢討及因應措施」進行報告，並備質詢。
二、審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣自來水股份有限公司。(詢答)） |
| gazette.lineno |
344 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
張委員啓楷：（9時56分）謝謝主席，請王部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請王部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
王部長美花：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
張委員啓楷：明天就要開電價審議委員會了，今天算是一個非常關鍵的時刻，物價到底會不會漲？會漲多少？人民心中都有一把尺，現在大家都張大眼睛在看，各個部會包括你在內，每一個部會到底是讓物價可以平穩的捍衛者，還是一個加害者？今天我看到新聞嚇了一跳，交通部長說現在臺鐵和公路局竟然已經準備要漲價了，臺鐵和公路局會不會變成是帶動這一波物價上漲的元兇？經濟部的角色又是怎樣呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[3][1] |
我們很清楚看到財政部長是右邊的捍衛者，財政部長說包括黃小玉等大宗物資的營業稅、貨物稅及關稅3個月減免96億，從110年就已經開始採取這個措施，減稅減了853億，所以就人民來看會發現財政部是站在穩定物價的捍衛者，交通部現在變成是捍衛者還是加害者？對交通部長、臺鐵、公路局就是一個很大的考驗了。如果真的漲價了，整個物價就上去了，電價上漲的同時，整個物價也上去了，我要問部長，你認為經濟部在這次的物價漲不漲，經濟部特別是經濟部長，你是捍衛者還是加害者？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
王部長美花：過去兩、三年台電吸收了非常多的成本，讓國內的物價穩定跟國際比起來，其實是名列前茅的，也就是因為這樣造成台電產生比較大的虧損，我們當然也謝謝行政院給我們支持。但是因為目前的虧損已經讓台電的財務有一些沒有辦法運轉了，所以這也是為什麼我們一方面申請行政院的撥補，另外一方面做適度的調整，我們調整的時候一定會考量穩定物價，照顧民生的部分都是我們重要的考量因素。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
張委員啓楷：部長，希望你的努力人民看到是肯定的，可是現在一方面人民在看你漲電價的同時，你有沒有在穩定物價做了努力，等一下我會很具體跟你講你至少可以做兩件事情，等一下會跟你討論。現在比較麻煩的是物價看起來一直在往上走，這幾天立法院最熱門的新聞是什麼？立法院院長韓國瑜吃的水煎包1顆多少錢？部長有沒有注意到這個新聞？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
王部長美花：店家的定價每一家都略有不同。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
張委員啓楷：韓院長說水煎包1顆已經到了28塊，這當然是比較貴的，昨天有人去問主計長1顆水煎包到底多少錢，當然大小會不一樣，部長知道水煎包現在價格大概多少嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
王部長美花：確實每一家都不太一樣。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
張委員啓楷：主計長說15至20塊，我為什麼問你這個事情？連水煎包都已經15到20塊，一般人大概一餐要吃掉幾顆？少的話3顆，多的話可能也要5顆，再加個湯，這樣100、200塊就用掉了。在臺北市1個便當至少都120、130塊，連我回去嘉義，嘉義的便當都120、130塊。如果這次的物價沒有穩定住，我一再強調，就跟變了心的女朋友一樣回不來了，所以部長的責任重大，一定要在穩定物價這一部分多注意，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
王部長美花：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
張委員啓楷：我具體提出兩個很重要的建議是你馬上可以做的，後天行政院就要召開穩定物價小組會議，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
王部長美花：院裡面會開。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
張委員啓楷：後天行政院就要召開穩定物價小組會議。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
王部長美花：後天禮拜六。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
張委員啓楷：是後天要開，還是明天星期五？這1、2天就要開。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
王部長美花：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
張委員啓楷：財政部長已經講了，包括黃小玉等大宗物資，只要降稅或減稅有助減緩廠商成本，讓物價可以穩定，財政部長已經說了他是支持的。有一個事情是經濟部長可以做的，桶裝瓦斯對整個物價影響會非常大，特別是針對小吃店，桶裝瓦斯一漲，小吃店漲上來，整個物價就上來了，你能不能允諾至少在行政院的穩定物價小組去爭取，你去極力爭取、幫人民爭取，站在人民這邊，桶裝瓦斯不要漲，可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
王部長美花：跟委員報告，桶裝瓦斯不是在物價小組討論，其實這是屬於我們中油的機制，桶裝瓦斯我們確實一定會優於考量，短期不會漲。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
張委員啓楷：短期不會漲，那你要很明確地跟行政院表達清楚，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
王部長美花：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
張委員啓楷：在行政院物價的討論裡面，財政部長都已經這麼明確講了，所以我剛剛講現在財政部長跟財政部是整個穩定物價的捍衛者，我期待經濟部長至少在桶裝瓦斯這邊也是捍衛者，好不好？你剛剛有允諾至少短時間不會漲。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
王部長美花：因為我們知道桶裝瓦斯小吃店用的很多，這個部分我們確實都優於考量。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
張委員啓楷：所以優於考量是差不多多久的時間？至少在年底不要漲？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
王部長美花：跟委員報告，因為桶裝瓦斯目前我們賣的價格大概是八塊多，可是我們的成本其實是十幾塊，目前其實我們都是在吸收。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
張委員啓楷：部長這樣講聽起來好像又要漲價。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
王部長美花：不是，我只是跟委員說短期內桶裝瓦斯我們一定不會漲。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
張委員啓楷：短期保證不會漲，部長，要很明確喔！現在加害者和捍衛者是一線之間。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
王部長美花：委員不能這樣講，因為台電也是受害者。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
張委員啓楷：所以台電我們支持你去爭取該有的補助。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
王部長美花：是，謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
張委員啓楷：可是站在人民的立場，桶裝瓦斯的影響真的是很大的，你剛才已經允諾短時間一定不會漲，好不好？第二個可能是更重要的，針對這次的漲價要反映真正的使用者，部長看一下，現在50億度以上的用電超大戶，如果上面的級距沒有再拉上去，沒有反映用電的漲幅，誰負責去補？就是你剛剛說的，你去行政院、你去主計拿回來的錢去補他的錢，對不對？第二個，330度以下民生用電的這些人漲了價，這些錢還是去補用電超大戶，這樣公平嗎？不公平，對不對？所以你們要非常具體，明天的會議你至少要送個資料進去或很明確的表達，這次如果要漲電價應該是50億度以上的用電超大戶該漲好漲滿，不要再從一般民生用電的人民身上再剝皮，可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
王部長美花：在相關的部分我們確實會讓用電大戶承擔比較多的責任，對民生及物價部分會優先考量，這是我們的大方向。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
張委員啓楷：所以用電的超大戶漲好漲滿，這個是確定的，可是在民生用電這一塊，你能不能承諾儘量在330度以下的民生用電不要漲？可以爭取嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
王部長美花：審議委員會都會去討論相關的因素。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
張委員啓楷：部長，我看所有的公報，還有到目前為止所有質詢過的立法委員，不管是民眾黨的，不管是國民黨跟民進黨的，連民進黨都是認為330度以下儘量不要漲，我們是你強力的後盾啊！你要站在人民這一邊啊！你們去力爭至少330度以下的民生用電不要漲。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
王部長美花：謝謝委員的意見。因為整個部分的大原則都有，這會到審議會去詳細討論。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
張委員啓楷：部長，我今天談的是你的歷史定位，還有在這一次電價漲完之後的整個物價你所扮演的角色，我很期待，我今天一直在強調你要站在人民這一邊。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
王部長美花：是！有。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
張委員啓楷：所以一方面要力爭到底，桶裝瓦斯不要漲；第二個，站在人民這一邊力爭到底，330度以下的民生用電不要漲。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
王部長美花：謝謝委員的意見，我們會參考。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
張委員啓楷：謝謝部長，謝謝主席。 |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
主席：給張委員拍拍手，準時，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[42][1] |
接下來我們請鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員進行詢答。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
236 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-19-4 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林岱樺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
呂玉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
陳超明 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
徐欣瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
何欣純 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
陳冠廷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
邱議瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
劉建國 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
169 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-03-21 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1131801 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1131801_00008 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、邀請經濟部部長就「當前供水情勢檢討及因應措施」進行報告，並備質詢；二、審查113年
度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣自來水股份有限公司。（詢
答） |
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1131801_00013 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1.27 |
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22.968 |
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請做詢答。我們再請王部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
28.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
57.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
好 委員好 是明天才要開電價審議委員會了是今天算是一個非常關鍵的時刻就是物價到底會不會漲會漲多少那人民心中都有一把尺現在大家都張大眼睛在看包括各個部會包括你在內這個每一個部會到底他是讓物價可以平穩的捍衛者還是他是一個加害者 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
58.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
87.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
今天我看到新聞我走一下交通部長說現在台鐵跟公路局竟然已經準備要漲價了台鐵跟公路局會不會變成是帶動這一波物價上漲的這個元兇那經濟部的角色又是怎樣呢財政部長我們很清楚看到他是在右邊的這個焊位置財政部長怎麼講包括黃小玉 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
89.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
90.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
一些大眾的這個物資他們的營業稅、貨物稅跟關稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
95.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
123.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
三個月減免96他從100年開始他已經採取這個措施他減稅減了多少853億所以人民就會看會發現說財政部是站在穩定物價的一個捍衛者那交通部現在變成是捍衛者是加害者對交通部長對台鐵對公路局就是一個很大的一個考驗了他如果真的是漲價了整個物價就上去電價上漲的同時整個物價也上去了那我要問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
125.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
128.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
你認為經濟部在這次的這個物價漲不漲?經濟部特別是經濟部的部長你是捍衛者還是加害者? |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
136.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
140.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我想過去兩三年台電就是吸收了非常多的成本那讓國內的這個物價的穩定跟國際比起來其實是名列前茅的那也就是因為這樣造成台電比較大的這個虧損那我們當然也謝謝行政院給我們支持但是因為這個目前的虧損讓台電的財務 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
159.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
162.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
啊啊已經有一些沒有辦法運轉了所以這個是啊為什麼我們一方面來申請行政院的撥補另外一方面來做適度的調整調整的時候啊我們一定啊會把這個穩定的物價 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
177.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
199.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
讓這個民生的這個照顧民生這個部分一定都是我們重要的一個考量因素人民看到是肯定的可是現在一方面人民在看你漲電價的同時你有沒有在穩定物價做的努力等一下會很具體至少你是可以做兩件事情等一下會跟討論可是現在比較麻煩的物價看起來一直在往上走對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
201.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
229.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
這幾天日本最熱門的新聞是什麼?日本一家韓國瑜吃了水煎包,一顆多少錢?保定你注意這個新聞嗎?我想這個民生用店家的這個定價,每一家都略有不同啦,是。海燕長說水煎包一顆已經到了28塊,這當然是比較貴的。阿藏國人去買廚藝店說一顆水煎包大約多少錢,當然它大小會不一樣啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
230.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
236.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
部長知道水煎包現在價格大概多少嗎?確實每一家都不太一樣。都不一樣齁? |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
236.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
255.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
主要一定是15到20顆。那為什麼問你這個事情?連個水煎包都已經到15到20。然後如果一般的人大概一餐大概吃掉幾顆?少的話3顆對不對?多的話可能也要5顆啊,再加個湯。一兩百塊就用掉了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
256.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
285.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
然後現在的便當在台北市一個便當至少大概都120、130了連我回來的咖哩、連咖哩的便當已經都120、130了如果這一次的物價沒有穩定住我會再強調就跟那個變而新的女朋友就回不來了所以部長你責任重大好不好一定要在穩定物價這一塊要多注意好不好是好那具體的提兩個很重要的建議是你馬上可以做的阿滙子 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
285.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
310.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
行政院就要開穩定物價小組會議對不對?院裡面會開?後天,後天行政院就要開穩定物價的小組會議。後天禮拜六,應該是。是要開還是拜五?不知道。這兩天就要開嘛。那財政部長已經講了,他在,下一張,剛剛那一張。財政部長已經講了,包括黃曉益, |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
311.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
326.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這一種比較大宗的這個物資他只要降稅或減稅有助於減反廠商成本讓物價可以穩定財政部長應供他是支持的那有一個事情是財政部、經濟部部長可以做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
328.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
347.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
統裝瓦斯統裝瓦斯對整個物價影響會非常的大特別是小吃店統裝瓦斯一漲小吃店上來整個物價就上來你能不能允諾至少在行政院的穩定物價小組你去爭取你去極力的爭取幫人民爭取站在人民這邊統裝瓦斯不要漲可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
349.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
350.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
統裝瓦斯不是在物價小組討論其實是屬於我們中有的機制這個統裝瓦斯我們確實一定會優於考量短期不會漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
364.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
384.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
短期不會這樣對不對那你要很明確的跟行政院的表達清楚好不好行政院如果在整個物價的這個討論裡面你看人家財政部長都已經這麼明確講了所以我剛剛講現在財政部長跟財政部是整個穩定物價的捍衛者我期待經濟部長至少在統裝瓦斯這邊也是捍衛者好不好你剛剛有贏喔至少短時間不會這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
394.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
411.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
至少在年底不要漲我跟委員報告齁因為統川老師目前我們賣的大概8塊多可是我們的成本其實是十幾塊那目前我們其實都是在吸收不是我只是跟委員說所以短期內我們一定會統川老師不漲短期保證不會漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
414.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
415.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
第二個可能是更重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
440.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
465.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
真正正式的這個漲價要反映真正的使用者其實這邊部長你看一下現在50度以上的用電的這個超大戶他上面如果急劇沒有再拉上去沒有反映該用的這個用電的這個漲幅誰負責去補?在你剛才說的嘛你去行政院你去租客房貼上來錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
466.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
475.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
去補他的錢 對不對第二個330度以下的民生用電這些人漲了價這些錢還是去補了這個用電的超大戶這樣公平嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
476.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
495.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
不公平對不對所以你們很非常具體的明天的這個會議你至少送個資料進去或者很明確的表達這次如果要漲電價應該是50億度以上用電的這個超大戶該漲好漲滿該漲好漲滿不要再從一般的民生用電在人民身上在暴斃可不可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
496.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
521.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我們這個相關的部分我們確實會讓這個用電大戶承擔比較多的責任然後對這個民生還有物價部分會優於考量這個是我們的大方向所以用電的超大戶長好長滿這個是確定的可是在民生用電這一塊你能不能承諾盡量在330度以下的民生用電不要漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
524.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
547.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
相關的因素審議委員會都會去討論不一定我看所有的公報還有到目前為止所有執行過的立法委員不管是民眾黨的不管是國民黨跟民進黨連民進黨喔都是認為330度以下盡量不要漲我們是你強力的後盾啊你要站在人民這一邊啊你們去力爭至少330度以下的民生空間不要漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
549.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
575.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
謝謝委員意見那因為整個部分大原則都有那會到審議會那邊去做討論會詳細討論我今天談的是你的歷史定位還有就是在這一次裡面整個電價漲完之後的整個物價你的角色我很期待我今天一直在強調你要站在人民這一邊是所以一方面力爭要力爭到底統裝瓦斯不要漲第二個站在人民這一邊力爭到底330度以下的民生用電不要漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
577.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
585.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
謝謝委員的意見。我們會參考。是。好。謝謝部長。謝謝主席。謝謝。給張委員拍拍手。準時。謝謝。 |