| IVOD_ID |
150150 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150150 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-35-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-20T11:39:12+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-20T11:53:40+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:28 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b8deaa01a2e7f1923dea2aa9ad92d486135db69d26d20764f8ba9b0039caa7a612ef279f21671aaf5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
賴士葆 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:39:12 - 11:53:40 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告業務概況，並備質詢。） |
| gazette.lineno |
536 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
賴委員士葆：（11時39分）謝謝主席及各位先進，有請外交部長吳部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請吳部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
吳部長釗燮：賴委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
賴委員士葆：部長你好，最近我看你滿面春風。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
吳部長釗燮：沒有啦！不敢。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
賴委員士葆：看起來氣色不錯。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
吳部長釗燮：不要虧我。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
賴委員士葆：但是你今天說的一句話我是看不太懂，你說太平島是我們的主權，絕對沒問題，就是我們的領土嘛！是不是這樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
吳部長釗燮：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
賴委員士葆：我們的領土，說總統去我們的領土製造困難，因為那裡戰雲密布，這個講法我就聽不太懂，我們的國家、我們的主人去一下說有多緊張，你說戰雲密布，我們的空軍可以伴飛什麼的，保護總統專機等等，為什麼是製造困難？你也說來聽聽。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
吳部長釗燮：非常謝謝委員問這個問題，這個問題比較大的框架是這樣子，太平島是我們的主權，這個毋庸置疑，我們不管總統有沒有去、我們委員有沒有去，這個都是我們的領土，而且這個是存在很久的，我們的駐軍、我們的國旗在那邊已經是長久的事實，而且在未來的這個階段不預見會有任何的改變，這個是第一個前提。第二個就是說現在在南海這個地方的確情勢是變得非常複雜，比如中國跟菲律賓之間的海巡船艦的衝撞…… |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
賴委員士葆：就快打起來了。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
吳部長釗燮：等等的這些事情，的確我們臺灣如果被國際社會看起來是一個在維持和平、穩定、維持現狀的成員的話，這個會受到國際的感激，國際社會也會支持我們；但是萬一如果這個事情沒有處理好，被國際社會看起來好像我們在已經是很困難的狀況之下增加更多困擾，那這個就不好，所以要去那邊…… |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
賴委員士葆：你這個講法好像我們去了一趟就變trouble maker，這很奇怪！ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
吳部長釗燮：沒有，我們必須要去衡量整個對我們臺灣最有利的…… |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
賴委員士葆：來，部長，這個就是我想到另外一個比喻了，比如說你現在出國去訪問，外交部長到處跑，對不對？很辛苦，結果臺海現在打仗了，你說現在臺灣打仗很危險、戰雲密布，我不要回去，這樣可以嗎？那是我們的領土，因為大陸，我們不承認它啊！對不對？菲律賓的事情，這個東西我們國家的元首去一下，你說製造困難。同樣地，臺海如果發生戰爭，你說最好不要回去，剛好你就在流浪國外，變這個比喻耶！人家就這樣比喻你喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
吳部長釗燮：委員講到如果是本土防衛的話，這個是人人有責啦！我不管人在哪裡，只要臺灣本土防衛能夠用得上我的時候，我一定回來，我也會叫我的兒子回來。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
賴委員士葆：不管用得上、用不上都要回來啦！陳水扁、馬英九都去啊！那時候難道沒有戰雲密布嗎？那時候難道沒有美國壓力嗎？簡單來講，今天之所以不敢去就是美國壓力嘛！美國人一說：你來也是白費力氣，這樣啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
吳部長釗燮：委員，沒有，沒有美國的壓力，美國人沒有來跟我們講，我們也沒有去問美國人。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
賴委員士葆：你Google一下馬英九去的時候，美國是極力阻擋啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
吳部長釗燮：喔！是喔！我不知道…… |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
賴委員士葆：你Google一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
吳部長釗燮：我沒有在馬政府裡面服務。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
賴委員士葆：其實這個來講，你Google就可以了，不需要在那裡服務。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
吳部長釗燮：喔，是喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
賴委員士葆：當然是啊！怎麼不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
吳部長釗燮：好，謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
賴委員士葆：你如果怕跟中國大陸站一邊，有人講說這樣跟它站一邊，很好啊！那就請賴清德現任副總統、總統當選人，現任副總統代表總統去，這樣可以嗎？他去人家總不會認為他跟中國站一邊了吧？一定不會啊！賴清德是務實臺獨工作者，他怎麼會跟老共，老共怎麼會喜歡他去呢？對不對？show我們的guts，是不是？上任之前副總統去可以嗎？你看可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
吳部長釗燮：委員的這個說法是很有意思啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
賴委員士葆：當然有意思啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
吳部長釗燮：但是我不是在這個事情上面的決策者，我剛剛也在…… |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
賴委員士葆：請問你，你剛剛說…… |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
吳部長釗燮：我已經說太平島是我們的領土，所以這個應該是內政的，所以你一直問外交部長有關內政的事情…… |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
賴委員士葆：這不是內政喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
吳部長釗燮：我覺得怪怪的。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
賴委員士葆：不會啦！因為你說的，你今天先主動說的喔！你說現在那邊戰雲密布，去就是製造困難。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
吳部長釗燮：我是在講外交、國際嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
賴委員士葆：外交就是這樣…… |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
吳部長釗燮：但是你講太平島，太平島是我們的領土範圍啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
賴委員士葆：那我再請教你，我們的召委很英明，排5月16號要去考察太平島。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
吳部長釗燮：尊重。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
賴委員士葆：我本人跟馬主席報告，跟馬文君主席報告，我要報名跟著去，可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
吳部長釗燮：我們都尊重啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
賴委員士葆：我要跟著你去，我要去，沒有去過，我很想去，如果邀部長你要去嗎？請你去可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
吳部長釗燮：尊重委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
賴委員士葆：我們馬文君主席、召委發個邀請函請你也去，要去嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
吳部長釗燮：如果時間沒有改變的話，我想委員可以替我思考一下，因為那時候的外賓會多如牛毛，我們外交部是不可能在那個時間點出國，或者是說到離島。 |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
賴委員士葆：5月16號，這件事你說到外賓，他是安排在5月16號，我們去一下子、一天就回來了，沒那麼了不起啦！我們有次長，政次、常次一堆，禮賓司一堆人可以替你招待外賓，沒有問題啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
吳部長釗燮：那是你說的。 |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
賴委員士葆：沒有啦，我問你，你要去嗎？只要一句話，簡單一句啦，去不去？ |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
吳部長釗燮：委員要去我尊重…… |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
賴委員士葆：你就跟著去？ |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
吳部長釗燮：委員要去我尊重，我…… |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
賴委員士葆：安排你去你也要去？ |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
吳部長釗燮：我的這個狀況，我必須要去思考到我自己本身的立場和我的工作…… |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
賴委員士葆：不能這樣講喔！部長，以立法院來講的話，我們委員會不管安排什麼題目，邀請部長來，除非你另外有很大很大的事情，否則你要到的喔！你要到喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
吳部長釗燮：委員！ |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
賴委員士葆：你要到喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
吳部長釗燮：委員，我剛才就跟你說過了，太平島是我們的領土範圍，這個應該是內政部的事情，結果你叫外交部長去太平島考察，這樣不好啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
賴委員士葆：奇怪，只要有相關的我們都一樣，好多部長一起去耶！好啦，你不要給我扯這個，這個那個…… |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
吳部長釗燮：沒有，我講的是正確的話。 |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
賴委員士葆：如果這樣，你早上就不要講那些話，你就說那不是我的事情，不是外交部的事情，你不要說那些！那是內政部的事情，結果你說了一堆，說了這麼大篇，你跟人家說這個啊，你跟人家說這個人家才問你的，你不要說這個嘛，不然你就不要說，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[61][1] |
來，剛才也有民進黨的立委問你這個問題，他講話很客氣，我講話也很客氣啦！在你任內，你做了6年，邦交國一天到晚斷交、斷交、斷交，不然你也打拚一下，關於你的報告，我今天早上很早來，我把你的報告讀了一遍，喔，你很認真啦，這邊那邊的四處跑透透，然後有一些無邦交的實質關係，這個努力大家看得見，沒關係，但是外交部存在最大的價值就是要有邦交國嘛，不然成立外交部幹什麼？結果現在一直斷、一直斷、一直斷！講一個來聽聽，有沒有可能增加一個？一個就好了，有沒有可能增加一個給我們看？大家會給你拍手鼓掌，真的。 |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
吳部長釗燮：我們沒有排除任何可能性。 |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
賴委員士葆：不是啦，有沒有可能增加一個啦？一個！ |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
吳部長釗燮：我們沒有排除任何可能性。 |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
賴委員士葆：你這樣講聽不懂啦，你這樣講是不敢回答！對自己沒有信心喔？ |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
吳部長釗燮：我們一樣都是念過博士的，應該是很清楚啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
賴委員士葆：不然你私底下跟我講，可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
吳部長釗燮：私底下如果有機會的話，我再跟委員說明。 |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
賴委員士葆：不是有機會啦，要來講啊，說哪個國家可能跟我們建交啊！我幫你放鞭炮！ |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
吳部長釗燮：我跟你說，萬一被人偷聽到就見光死了！ |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
賴委員士葆：不會啦，我知道就好了。 |
| gazette.blocks[71][1] |
來，我再問你喔，有沒有可能變成零？被人家修理到變成零。 |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
吳部長釗燮：沒有。 |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
賴委員士葆：絕對沒有喔？ |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
吳部長釗燮：絕對沒有。 |
| gazette.blocks[75][0] |
賴委員士葆：520之前還有沒有可能有國家跟我們斷交？520之前。 |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
吳部長釗燮：跟委員報告，對於邦交，我們現在都非常的敏感，我們對於每一個邦交國現在的狀況也都過濾的非常清楚，到目前為止沒有看到有任何的跡象…… |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以你有把握520之前絕對不會斷交plus one？不會？你公開講！ |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
吳部長釗燮：剛剛跟委員報告過的就是說，目前我們每一個國家去檢視，看起來目前是沒有問題的。 |
| gazette.blocks[79][0] |
賴委員士葆：都不會的？ |
| gazette.blocks[80][0] |
吳部長釗燮：目前是沒有問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[81][0] |
賴委員士葆：520之後你會不會續任？ |
| gazette.blocks[82][0] |
吳部長釗燮：這個我沒辦法替長官來說明。 |
| gazette.blocks[83][0] |
賴委員士葆：外界說賴清德現在因為要撇開務實臺獨工作者這樣的標籤，所以國安團隊基本上儘量是蔡規賴隨，看起來的話你可能會被留啊。如果長官找你，你繼續留吧，有意願吧？繼續做？ |
| gazette.blocks[84][0] |
吳部長釗燮：那個我…… |
| gazette.blocks[85][0] |
賴委員士葆：說一下！說一下心裡話。 |
| gazette.blocks[86][0] |
吳部長釗燮：真的內心的話…… |
| gazette.blocks[87][0] |
賴委員士葆：好，內心的話。 |
| gazette.blocks[88][0] |
吳部長釗燮：就是我在外交部長的任內已經超過6年了…… |
| gazette.blocks[89][0] |
賴委員士葆：也斷了9國。 |
| gazette.blocks[90][0] |
吳部長釗燮：我是蔡總統任命的，依照憲政的慣例，就是說…… |
| gazette.blocks[91][0] |
賴委員士葆：你當然要辭掉！ |
| gazette.blocks[92][0] |
吳部長釗燮：既然是蔡總統任命的，就是蔡總統卸任的時候，我必須要跟他一起卸任，這個是依照憲政的精神來走，但是如果說有長官覺得我必須要再做一段時間，讓這個過渡能夠更加平順的話，我也會來做這個思考…… |
| gazette.blocks[93][0] |
賴委員士葆：義不容辭啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[94][0] |
吳部長釗燮：但是到目前為止，沒有人談論過這個事情，所以我不知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[95][0] |
賴委員士葆：對啦，你講的白話文就是說，如果賴長官要你做，你義不容辭繼續做還沒有做完的事情，可以這樣講嗎？我這樣解釋可以吧？不會反對啦？ |
| gazette.blocks[96][0] |
吳部長釗燮：我想不是這個詮釋啦，這個詮釋就是說…… |
| gazette.blocks[97][0] |
賴委員士葆：不是這個詮釋？ |
| gazette.blocks[98][0] |
吳部長釗燮：如果有需要我在過渡的期間…… |
| gazette.blocks[99][0] |
賴委員士葆：你再考慮？ |
| gazette.blocks[100][0] |
吳部長釗燮：沒有，我就跟你講說依照憲政的精神，就是我隨蔡總統卸任嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[101][0] |
賴委員士葆：因為我的時間已經到了，所以就請你長話短說，其實外面一直覺得你更適合當國防部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[102][0] |
吳部長釗燮：這樣嗎？你不要害我好不好！ |
| gazette.blocks[103][0] |
賴委員士葆：你一天到晚講到兩岸就喊殺喊打的…… |
| gazette.blocks[104][0] |
吳部長釗燮：那「黑白講」！ |
| gazette.blocks[105][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以請問你，你同意不同意…… |
| gazette.blocks[106][0] |
吳部長釗燮：沒有啦，委員，我沒有這樣說喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[107][0] |
賴委員士葆：外界這樣看。 |
| gazette.blocks[108][0] |
吳部長釗燮：外界是誤傳、誤解喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[109][0] |
賴委員士葆：外界都說王毅是戰狼外交部長，你同意嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[110][0] |
吳部長釗燮：我覺得他的風格可能有一些是貼近這個，但是不完全是啦。 |
| gazette.blocks[111][0] |
賴委員士葆：也有人說你也是戰狼部長，你同意嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[112][0] |
吳部長釗燮：那就是「黑白講」的啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[113][0] |
賴委員士葆：「黑白講」？不然就戰貓部長，可以嗎？戰貓比較小隻。 |
| gazette.blocks[114][0] |
吳部長釗燮：戰貓是別人。 |
| gazette.blocks[115][0] |
賴委員士葆：蛤？ |
| gazette.blocks[116][0] |
吳部長釗燮：戰貓是別人。 |
| gazette.blocks[117][0] |
賴委員士葆：部長，我跟你說啦，被斷交這麼多國，當然是中國打壓，沒有人反對這樣的statement啦。我就請問你一個東西，你打從心裡，他給我們搞了這麼多，一直讓我們斷交，你恨不恨王毅啊？ |
| gazette.blocks[118][0] |
吳部長釗燮：這個不是個人的問題啦，就是說…… |
| gazette.blocks[119][0] |
賴委員士葆：你要恨啊！要恨一下啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[120][0] |
吳部長釗燮：就是說this is given，就是中國對我們打壓，這個是given，但是…… |
| gazette.blocks[121][0] |
賴委員士葆：given嘛，這個從老蔣時代就打壓到現在了啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[122][0] |
吳部長釗燮：但是對我們臺灣的外交部門來講，就是在這個given的狀況之下，我們如何去尋求我們的活路，在過去這段時間…… |
| gazette.blocks[123][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以你不會恨他？ |
| gazette.blocks[124][0] |
吳部長釗燮：過去這段時間委員已經看到了我們跟美國、跟歐洲、跟很多國家的關係有長足的進展，這就是我們外交的活路。 |
| gazette.blocks[125][0] |
賴委員士葆：好啦，現在沒有時間讓你講這麼多，我就問你，我就問你恨不恨他嗎？恨不恨他？ |
| gazette.blocks[126][0] |
吳部長釗燮：這個沒有恨不恨的問題…… |
| gazette.blocks[127][0] |
賴委員士葆：討厭不討厭他？ |
| gazette.blocks[128][0] |
吳部長釗燮：這個沒有恨不恨的問題…… |
| gazette.blocks[129][0] |
賴委員士葆：討厭不討厭？ |
| gazette.blocks[130][0] |
吳部長釗燮：這個沒有討厭不討厭的問題，就是說在這個情況之下…… |
| gazette.blocks[131][0] |
賴委員士葆：尊重？枉費你之前話說的這麼硬，今天怎麼軟下來了？ |
| gazette.blocks[132][0] |
吳部長釗燮：委員，…… |
| gazette.blocks[133][0] |
賴委員士葆：今天變軟腳了！ |
| gazette.blocks[134][0] |
吳部長釗燮：委員，不要這樣啦！不要這樣啦！我剛才已經說明了我們的外交在這種情形下，我們要怎麼樣…… |
| gazette.blocks[135][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以我幫你做一個總結，你同意或者最少部分同意，王毅是戰狼外交部長…… |
| gazette.blocks[136][0] |
吳部長釗燮：這是你說的。 |
| gazette.blocks[137][0] |
賴委員士葆：然後你自己不是戰狼的外交部長，也不是戰貓…… |
| gazette.blocks[138][0] |
吳部長釗燮：那是你剛才說的，跟我沒關係。 |
| gazette.blocks[139][0] |
賴委員士葆：不是，你同意吧？同意或…… |
| gazette.blocks[140][0] |
吳部長釗燮：我沒有同意，我沒有…… |
| gazette.blocks[141][0] |
賴委員士葆：你剛才講了，記者錄一下…… |
| gazette.blocks[142][0] |
吳部長釗燮：我沒有同意你的說法。 |
| gazette.blocks[143][0] |
賴委員士葆：記者錄一下！ |
| gazette.blocks[144][0] |
吳部長釗燮：我沒有同意你的說法。 |
| gazette.blocks[145][0] |
賴委員士葆：不同意，是嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[146][0] |
吳部長釗燮：我沒有同意你的說法。 |
| gazette.blocks[147][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以你不同意我剛剛講的？ |
| gazette.blocks[148][0] |
吳部長釗燮：我沒有同意你的說法。 |
| gazette.blocks[149][0] |
賴委員士葆：王毅不是戰狼部長，所以你這樣說，你確定喔？ |
| gazette.blocks[150][0] |
吳部長釗燮：我剛剛已經說明了，我不要再重複了。 |
| gazette.blocks[151][0] |
賴委員士葆：好啦，我要講一個東西就是，外交部長…… |
| gazette.blocks[152][0] |
吳部長釗燮：主席已經站起來很久了。 |
| gazette.blocks[153][0] |
賴委員士葆：我知道啦，你不用這麼緊張啦，好歹有意義的國際組織我們要努力一下吧，萊豬吃了，加拿大有狂牛症疑慮的牛肉也吃了，日本的核食也喝了、吃了，結果CPTPP原步踏步踏，英國跟我們同時申請，同一年（2021年）申請，人家進去了，我們還沒有！ICAO也沒有恢復！WHA最後一個請你回答一下，WHA今年有沒有可能？ |
| gazette.blocks[154][0] |
吳部長釗燮：跟委員報告，你剛才說好幾個事情，其實那個前提是不對的啦，我們都在美國念過書，我們都在美國吃了美國的這些產品，我們都沒有問題啦，所以要遵守世界貿易的規則的話，這個是前提…… |
| gazette.blocks[155][0] |
賴委員士葆：主席都已經站起來了，你還一直說話，說了這麼久，好啦，你不要講就不要講啦…… |
| gazette.blocks[156][0] |
主席：時間的關係…… |
| gazette.blocks[157][0] |
賴委員士葆：私底下，你如果覺得講得不夠，你再來找我講啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[158][0] |
主席：謝謝。接下來請牛煦庭委員上臺質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
314 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-35-7 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
馬文君 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
羅美玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
王定宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
陳永康 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
林楚茵 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
徐巧芯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
黃仁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
沈伯洋 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
洪申翰 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
陳冠廷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
林憶君 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
翁曉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
253 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-03-20 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1131501 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1131501_00005 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請外交部部長吳釗燮報告業務概況，並備質詢 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1131501_00004 |
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37.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
委員好部長你好最近我看你滿面春風沒有啦 不敢啦看起來氣色不錯啦喔你不要亂開 別給我開但是你今天去說一句話我是看不到什麼啦太平島是我們的主權 絕對沒問題就是我們的領土嘛 是不是這樣是我們的領土 說中東是我們的領土這裏製造困難 所以在那裏戰雲密布 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
40.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
40.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
非常謝謝委員問這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
65.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
82.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
這個問題的那個比較大的框架是這樣子就是說太平島是我們的主權這個無庸置疑我們不管總統有沒有去我們委員有沒有去這個都是我們的領土而且這個是存在很久的我們的駐軍我們的國旗站那邊已經長久的事實而且在未來的這個階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
84.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
84.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
就快打起來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
101.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
126.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那的確我們台灣如果說被國際社會看起來是一個在維持和平穩定維持現狀的一個成員的話那這個會受到國際的感激那國際社會也會支持我們那但是萬一如果說這個事情沒有處理好被國際社會看起來好像我們在增加已經是很困難的狀況之下增加更多困擾那這個就不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
126.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
130.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
這個你這個講法好像我們去了一趟就變travel maker這很奇怪的來來部長啊這個就說想到另外一個比喻了齁比如說你現在出國 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
142.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
145.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
去訪問,外交部長也洗個澡,很辛苦,台灣現在打仗了,你說現在台灣打仗很危險,在你面部啊,我不要回去,這樣有通嗎?這樣有通嗎?我們的領土,因為大陸,我們不承認它啊,對不對?菲律賓的事情,這個東西,我們的國家的元首蓋了一個, |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
170.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
172.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
不管用得上又不上都要回來啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
198.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
203.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
不管用的上又不上都要回來了你用講法而已陳水扁馬英九都去阿那時候難道沒有佔領秘部嗎那時候難道沒有美國的壓力嗎簡單來講今天之所以不敢去就是美國的壓力嘛美國是說阿你來啊 給回去的給回去的啦沒有美國的壓力美國人沒有來跟我們講我沒有去問美國人你google一下馬英九要去的時候美國是極力阻擋啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
228.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
228.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
賴清德現任副總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
249.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
269.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
總統當選人先任副總統代表總統去這樣可以嗎他去總人家不會認為他跟中國站一邊了吧一定不會啊賴清德是台獨工作務實台獨工作者他怎麼會跟老共老共怎麼會喜歡他去呢對不對希望我們的Guts是不是上任之前副總統去可以嗎你看 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
272.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
290.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
委員的這個說法是很有意思啦當然有意思啦你不要來啦但是我不是在這個事情上面的這個決策者那我剛剛也在英國人說明的時候我已經說太平島是我們的領土所以這個是應該內政的所以你在問外交部長有關於內政的事情這個我覺得怪怪的沒有啦你以為你說的你今天去主動說的喔你說現在黑平戰略秘部 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
297.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
312.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
所以我是在講外交那個國際嘛但是你講太平土太平土是我們的領土防衛啊我們的召委很英明 排5月16號 要去考察太平洋報告 尊重我問一下吼 那個跟馬主席報告 馬文金主席報告 我要報名跟著去 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
317.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
318.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
尊重委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
335.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
350.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
如果是時間沒有改變的話那我想委員可以替我思考一下就是那時候的這個外賓會多如牛毛我們外交部是不可能在那個時間點出國或者是說到立島 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
351.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
357.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
5月16日安排區外賓一天就回來沒那麼了不起啦我們有次長、政策常事一堆的禮賓室一堆的替你招待外賓沒有問題啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
370.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
371.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
委員要去我尊重委員要去我尊重我的這個狀況我必須要去思考到我自己本身的這個立場我們在立法院來講的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
390.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
393.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我們經過委員會 開一個 不管開什麼題目 邀請部長來 除非你有另外很大很大的事情 否則你要倒喔 你要倒喔 委員 我剛才就跟你講過了 太平島是我們的那個領土範圍 這個應該是內政部的事情 結果你叫外交部長去太平島去考察 這樣不好啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
415.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
420.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我們相關的都一樣的我們都會一起好多部長一起去你不要給我扯這個我講的是正確的如果你這樣你早上都不要講那些話你說不是我的事不是外交部的事你不要說內政部的事你說這麼大聲你敢說這些你敢說這些人在面目你你不要說這些不然你不要說對不對來我們看 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
441.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
452.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
講一些啊 因為剛才民進黨立委也問了這個問題他講話很客氣 我講話也很客氣啦齁你爛類 你做了6年斷交股 這樣幾個月斷交斷交斷交不然你也這樣啪一片一年你報告 今天早上很早來那幫你讀了一遍你很認真啦 這啦 那啦四個遭到討 然後有一些這個無邦交的十字關係啊這個努力 大家看得見 沒關係齁但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
470.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
484.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
外交部存在最大的價值就是要有邦交國嘛 要不然成立外交部幹什麼 結果一直斷 一直斷 一直斷講一個問題有沒有可能增加一個 一個就好了 有沒有可能增加一個給我們看我們沒有排除任何可能性 有沒有可能一個啦 一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
491.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
492.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我們沒有排除任何可能性。 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
516.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
516.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
吳釗燮報告業務概況：賴士葆 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
546.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
553.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
剛剛跟委員報告過的就是說目前每一個國家去檢視看起來目前是沒有問題的五二零之後你會不會續任 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
560.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
582.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
外界說賴清德現在因為他要撇開台獨工作室務實台獨工作室這樣的標籤所以國安團隊基本上盡量是菜歸賴水看起來的話你可能會被留啊如果長官找你你繼續留吧有意願吧繼續做 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
589.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
610.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
內心的話就是我在外交部長的這個任內已經超過6年了那我是蔡總統任命的那依照憲政的慣例就是說蔡總統卸任的時候我必須要跟他一起卸任那這個是依照憲政的這個精神來走 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
611.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
637.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那但是如果說有長官覺得說我必須要再做一段時間讓這個過度能夠更加平順的話那我也會來做這個思考那但是目前為止到目前為止沒有人談論過這個事情所以我不知道你講的白話文就是說如果賴長官要你做你義不容辭繼續做還沒有做完的事情這樣可以說嗎我想其實可以不會反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
639.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
656.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
不是這個詮釋,這個詮釋就是說,如果有需要我在過路的期間,沒有,我就跟你講說,那個憲政的經濟我隨總統卸任。其實啊,你有時間快已經到了,不過就是請你長話短說,其實我還沒一直覺得說,你更適合當國防部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
662.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
663.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
外界都說王毅是戰狼外交部長你同意嗎我覺得他的風格可能有一些是貼近這個但是不完全是 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
687.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
715.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
也有人說你也是戰狼部長,你同意嗎?不然就戰貓部長,可以嗎?你戰貓是誰?戰貓是別人部長,我跟你說啦被端交這麼多國,當然是中國大家沒有人是反對這樣的statement啦來,我就請問你一個東西你答從心裡他給我們這麼搞的這麼一把一直讓我們端交,你恨不恨王毅啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
717.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
727.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這個不是個人的這個問題啦這是given就是中國對我們打壓這個是given但是對我們台灣的這個外交部門來講就是說在這個given的這個狀況之下我們如何去尋求我們的活路那在過去這段時間過去這段時間委員已經看到了我們跟美國跟歐洲跟美國國家的關係有長足的進展 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
747.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
747.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
所以我幫你做一個總結齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
771.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
773.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
你同意或最少部分同意王毅是戰狼外交部長然後呢你自己不是戰狼的外交部長也不是戰貓我沒有同意你的說話 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
792.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
792.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
吳釗燮報告業務概況． |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
811.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
814.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
WHA 最後一個請你回答一下WHA 今有沒有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
839.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
840.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
主席 |