| IVOD_ID |
149907 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149907 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-19-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-14T11:19:02+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-14T11:26:55+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:07:53 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/38af2da376d231354b92155eb0414e3f51d5fa63d75d4c3df8ba9b0039caa7a6db806415cfe579a85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:19:02 - 11:26:55 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-14T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣中油股份有限公司。(詢答)【3月11日、13日及14日三天一次會】） |
| gazette.lineno |
820 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
黃委員國昌：（11時19分）謝謝主席，麻煩請部長及中油董事長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請部長跟李董事長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
王部長美花：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
黃委員國昌：兩位好，延續昨天質詢的話題，臺鹽綠能去年大虧了2.7億，對於綠能政策我支持，但我反對用國家的資源去養派系權貴，讓特定的系統上下其手，這是我昨天在質詢部長的時候所要表明的立場。但我昨天一直在問這件事情的時候，部長看到這張圖，然後一直說什麼？我引用昨天質詢的話，部長說：「我真的要講，吳國卿跟可威完全沒關係，是另一個可威，這個對他太不公平，這完全錯誤，委員，你可能要先回去澄清一下。」我昨天在質詢的時候從頭到尾都還沒有提到吳國卿，結果部長兩次跟我說我搞錯了，要我回去澄清，我回去反省了很久，請問部長，你要我澄清什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
王部長美花：跟委員致歉，之前有在講可寧衛那個部分，因為有人確實把一些…… |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
黃委員國昌：有人是我嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
王部長美花：沒有，我沒有講委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
黃委員國昌：我PPT上是這樣寫嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
王部長美花：好，我…… |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
黃委員國昌：你要不要道歉？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
王部長美花：我跟委員致歉，這個部分因為確實之前有人講錯了，所以我才會…… |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
黃委員國昌：有人講錯算到我頭上喔？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
王部長美花：不是，因為…… |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
黃委員國昌：我昨天PPT是不是長成這個樣子？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
王部長美花：昨天委員第一次拿出這個圖，所以今天委員如果要問的話，我們可以再跟委員說明。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
黃委員國昌：我昨天的圖是不是長這樣？上面有哪一個字寫錯？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
王部長美花：這邊相關的人事的部分，等一下我們可以說明，這個不是委員昨天口頭講的這些問題，我們可以跟委員說明。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
黃委員國昌：你昨天看了這個圖，不是要我回去搞清楚，要我澄清，說對他不公平？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
王部長美花：我要跟委員講的是，吳國卿去當臺鹽綠能的這個部分，其實是我們拜託他去的。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
黃委員國昌：沒有關係，你是不是拜託他去，那是下一個層次的問題。我在做質詢資料的時候自我要求很嚴格，我所有的東西都有出處，都有所本，所以昨天部長在備詢臺上這樣指控我說，這完全錯誤，要我回去澄清一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
王部長美花：我剛才已經跟委員致歉了，委員未來要問這一些，委員可以事先給我們，我們可以來做回應。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
黃委員國昌：好，沒有關係，我們繼續往下問。吳國卿本來的職務是什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
王部長美花：他是在國營會當組長。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
黃委員國昌：所以他對於綠能有什麼樣的專業？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
王部長美花：他非常懂，他督導我們中油、台電，特別是台電的部分。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
黃委員國昌：所以針對有關於臺鹽綠能的部分，部長有信心他下去當總經理以後可以好好整頓嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
王部長美花：我們就是拜託他幫我們處理。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
黃委員國昌：今天部長表現了這樣的誠意，我就跟部長講，我從臺鹽綠能、從當地所收到的檢舉內容，我再說一次，我的立場很簡單，我不允許國家的資源讓特定的派系權貴上下其手，這是我的立場。好，具體的看，我為什麼說臺鹽綠能被派系上下其手？當初引進這四大民股，我知道經濟部反對，但臺鹽綠能董事長膽子很大，經濟部反對他也不管，就引進了四大民股，昨天部長有講到，臺鹽綠能虧損很重要的一個原因就是在嘉義義竹的案場嘛，對吧？嘉義義竹的案場提列了很多呆帳。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
王部長美花：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
黃委員國昌：有很多現在要也要不到。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
王部長美花：他們現在在仲裁中。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
黃委員國昌：是，結果引進的民股蔡清旭，就是跟臺南在那邊搞爐碴光電的同一個人，他們都是做下包商，錢都拿走，然後結果是什麼？他們在賺錢，臺鹽綠能在虧錢；一模一樣，土地開發的部分，拿著臺鹽綠能的招牌在外面收地，這個鴻暉國際，結果最後發現原來陳啟昱他兒子在那邊任職，土地開發整合費全部都賺到鴻暉的口袋裡面去，他們在賺錢，國家在虧錢，有這種道理喔？這就是我看不下去的地方啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
王部長美花：臺鹽綠能之前這個部分，我們也整理了，再過來就是需要檢調來澄清，所以這個部分，我們也送給檢調了。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
黃委員國昌：兩個部分，刑事犯罪，第二個吳國卿的部分，部長，你信任他，拜託他去當總經理，我希望他展現魄力，大刀闊斧的改革，我給他時間。因為他去年12月才去，我們再給他時間。主席站起來了，主席，我可以借30秒問最後一個問題嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
主席：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
黃委員國昌：可以嘛，謝謝。現在有上千位的民眾正在鹿港彰濱的服務中心抗議，他們抗議什麼？經濟部要在那邊設晶鼎焚化爐，他們很憤怒的事情是什麼？這件事情去年民進黨政府是由林佳龍帶著當地的立委去跟鄉親保證，絕對沒有這樣的事情，絕對不會推動，經濟部絕對不會准許在這邊設焚化爐，結果今年跳票了，我知道這件事情以後，因為彰化環保聯盟的總幹事施月英老師來找我陳情，我聽了很震驚，林佳龍做了這麼莊嚴的承諾，怎麼會跳票？部長，你要不要說明一下，到底有要蓋還是沒有要蓋？林佳龍的承諾算數還是不算數？ |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
王部長美花：晶鼎是承租我們彰濱的相關土地，要做這個事情。我們針對這個部分有相關的規範，合約也有它應該要做的事情，比如說它要得到彰化縣的許可，它要跟地方溝通…… |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
黃委員國昌：所以是要蓋還是不要蓋？ |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
王部長美花：這一些程序，因為對我們來說，我們有相關的合約期限，在期限之前，它要去履行這些東西，如果到時候沒有辦法做的話…… |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
黃委員國昌：期限到什麼時候？ |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
王部長美花：相關的期限我要問同仁。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
黃委員國昌：我只講最後一句話，當地的居民很憤怒，現在上千人已經把那個地方擠爆了，還有很多人進不去，我剛剛看到現場抗議的畫面，大家只問一件事情，政府講話算不算話？林佳龍的承諾算不算數？部長，我希望今天在那邊的經濟部同仁能夠給大家一個清楚的說明，這樣可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
王部長美花：我們都有相關的合約期程，我們會來處理。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
主席：細部的內容是不是再請經濟部提供給黃國昌委員？ |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
王部長美花：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
主席：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][1] |
謝謝黃國昌委員，接下來請黃珊珊委員發言。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
218 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-19-3 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
邱議瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
陳超明 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
徐欣瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
169 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-03-14 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1131201 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1131201_00005 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣中油股份有限公司
（詢答） |
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黃國昌委員發言現在主席有請部長以及中央董事長來請部長跟李董,謝謝是,好,問好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
28.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
52.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
委員好 延續昨天質詢的話題 台原綠能去年大虧了2.7億 我對於綠能政策我支持 但我反對用國家的資源去養派系權貴 去讓特定的系統在上下起手 這個是我昨天在質詢部長的時候 我所要表明的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
53.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
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| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
但我昨天一直在問這件事情的時候部長看到這張圖然後一直說什麼一直說來來來我把去昨天執行的話講說部長你說我真的要講吳國欽跟可威完全沒關是另一個可威這個對他太不公平這完全錯誤委員你可能要先回去澄清一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
75.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
97.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我昨天在質詢的時候從頭到尾都還沒有進入吳國欽部長你兩次跟我說我搞錯要我回去澄清我回去反省了很久請問部長你要我澄清什麼跟委員致歉齁那這個之前有在講可憐慰的那個部分那因為有人確實把一些 有人是我嗎沒有我沒有講我聽另一張是這樣寫嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
99.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
101.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
你要不要道歉有人講錯算到我頭上喔?我昨天PVP是不是長成這個樣子?我昨天圖是不是長這樣?上面哪一個字寫錯? |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
126.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
150.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
欸這邊相關的人事的部分等一下我們可以說明齁這個不是委員講的昨天口頭講的這些問題我們可以跟委員說明你昨天開的這個圖不是要我回去搞清楚要我澄清說對他不公平我要跟委員講的是吳國欽去當台研綠能的這個部分其實是我們拜託他去的欸沒有關係齁你是不是拜託他去那是下一個層次的問題齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
153.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
175.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我在做諮詢資料的時候我自我要求很嚴格我所有的東西都有出處都有鎖本所以主席部長在備詢台上這樣指控我說這完全錯誤我要回去澄清一下我剛才已經跟委員致歉了那委員會來要問這些委員可以事先給我們我們可以來做回應我們繼續往下問吳國慶他本來的職務是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
184.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
205.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
他是在國營會的這邊當組長所以他對於綠能有什麼樣的專業他非常懂他非常懂是不是他督導我們中油台電特別是台電的部分所以針對有關於台年綠能的部分部長你有信心他下去當總經理以後可以好好整頓嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
206.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
230.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
可以好好整頓嗎?我們就是拜託他幫我們...今天部長表現了這樣子的誠意我就跟部長講我從台言綠能從當地我所收到他們檢舉的內容我再說一次我的立場很簡單我不允許國家的資源讓特定的派系權貴上下其手這是我的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
232.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
249.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
具體的看我為什麼說喔臺原綠能成為派系上下的起手當初引進這四大名股我知道經濟部反對但臺原綠能的董事長膽子很大經濟部反對他也不管就引進了四大名股嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
250.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
279.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
昨天部長有講到臺元歷年虧損很重要的一個原因就是在嘉義異族的案場嘛對吧嘉義異族的案場提列了很多呆帳有很多現在要也要不到他們現在在種採種是是是好結果引進了民股蔡清旭蔡清旭就是跟臺南在那邊搞爐渣光店的同一個人他們都是做下包商 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
281.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
305.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
全都拿走然後結果是什麼?他們在賺錢台研綠能是什麼?在虧錢一模一樣土地開發的部分拿著台研綠能的招牌在外面收地這個鴻輝國際結果最後發現原來陳啟玉他兒子在那邊任職土地開發整合費全部都賺到鴻輝的口袋裡面去 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
306.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
332.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
他們在賺錢國家在虧錢有這種道理喔這個就是我看不下去的地方台演藝人之前的這個部分我們也整理了那再過來就是需要檢調來澄清所以這個部分我們也送給檢調了行事犯罪行事犯罪第二個吳國欽的部分部長你信任他拜託他去當總經理我希望他展現魄力大刀拓斧的改革 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
333.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
337.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
現在有上千位的民眾正在入港張斌的服務中心抗議他們抗議什麼?經濟部要在那邊設經濟的焚化爐 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
361.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
390.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
但他們很憤怒的事情是什麼這件事情去年民進黨政府林佳龍是帶著什麼當地的立委去跟鄉親保證絕對沒有這樣的事絕對不會推動經濟部絕對不會允許在這邊要設焚化爐結果到今年跳票了我知道這件事情以後一位彰化環保聯盟的總幹事施悅英斯老師來找我澄清我聽了很震驚啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
391.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
401.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
林佳龍做了這麼莊嚴的承諾怎麼會跳票部長你要不要說明一下自己到底有要幹還是沒有要幹林佳龍的承諾算數還是不算數 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
402.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
420.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
金鼎是承租我們這個髒冰的相關的這個土地那要做這個事情那我們這個部分有相關的規範那合約也有他應該做的事情比如說他要得到彰化縣的許可那這些程序因為對我們來說我們有這個相關合約的期限那期限之前他要去履行這些東西如果到時候沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
432.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
438.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
當地的居民很憤怒現在上千人已經把那個地方擠爆了還有很多人進不去我剛剛看到現場抗議的畫面大家只問一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
449.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
470.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
政府講話算不算話?林佳龍的承諾算不算數?我希望部長今天在那邊經濟部的同仁要給大家一個清楚的說明這樣可以嗎?我們都有相關的合約期程我們會來處理西部的內容是不是再請經濟部提供給黃國昌委員?是謝謝黃國昌委員 |