| IVOD_ID |
149832 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149832 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-26-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-14T09:19:20+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-14T09:28:24+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:04 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/38af2da376d231351c8437dd41b5fbb908cf9aa492401ec9f8ba9b0039caa7a63d1a61e1783180a45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
蘇清泉 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:19:20 - 09:28:24 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-14T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。
【3月13日及14日二天一次會】） |
| gazette.lineno |
739 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
蘇委員清泉：（9時19分）謝謝主席。我請部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
薛部長富盛：蘇委員早。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
蘇委員清泉：部長你好。部長你是澎湖人嘛？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
薛部長富盛：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
蘇委員清泉：所以你到高中之前都在澎湖嘛？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
薛部長富盛：我是馬公高中畢業。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
蘇委員清泉：你們澎湖的空氣這麼好，所以你18歲以前，你的肺部是沒有被污染的。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
薛部長富盛：其實跟蘇委員報告，我小時候覺得澎湖空氣很好，但是後來因為有境外的污染，事實上不只澎湖、金門、馬祖，在秋冬季節，其實空氣有時候比本島還要差。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
蘇委員清泉：那是沙塵暴吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
薛部長富盛：包括沙塵暴也有、包括工業的污染，因為冬天都吹北風跟東北風，所以我們中南部，我個人身為中南部的一份子，我覺得中南部事實上是還滿受到影響的…… |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
蘇委員清泉：對，這一張投影片是從高雄看屏東的大武山，北大武跟南大武，那天屏東縣政府大家非常開心，因為難得看到這麼清楚的，因為那天吹南風啦！南風吹得很強，把那些空污都吹跑了。下一張就是平常時候的屏東，林園、屏東就是這樣，部長，愈來愈嚴重了。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
薛部長富盛：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
蘇委員清泉：看到這麼糟糕的空氣污染，我們縣政府卻很高興，我覺得他們搞不清狀況，臺北人去屏東以為屏東沒有山、只有海而已，因為他看不到山，每天都「霧煞煞」，你看看，這全部都是高雄，尤其是林園那裡，部長你看林園、興達港，密密麻麻的，大林火力發電廠跟林園工業還有中鋼，中鋼也榜上有名，這些排碳、PM2.5、PM10，你是念奈米科技的，所以這你應該很清楚。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][1] |
我們屏東罹患肺腺癌的人數很高、非常高，我不知道是不是全球第一，以前是紫爆，現在是紅點，因為怕紫爆不好看，所以它把標準降低，你看，都是在沿海這一帶，所以我要問部長，興達火力發電廠二氧化碳CO2的排放量是臺灣第幾名？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
薛部長富盛：跟委員報告，事實上興達火力發電廠已經在去年全部汰換燃煤，以燃氣來取代。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
蘇委員清泉：用乾淨的煤是不是？我們總統講的。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
薛部長富盛：不是，用天然氣，已經全部都轉換了，所以我們也非常感謝經濟部、台電，真的非常努力，事實上興達火力發電廠已經沒有在燃煤了，都是用燃氣機組。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
蘇委員清泉：興達火力發電廠的排碳量是全臺灣第2名，全世界113名，中鋼是全世界141名，這都很嚴重，興達火力發電廠、大林火力發電廠40%的電北送，南電北送，一般的火力發電廠25年，它已經39年、40年還在搞，你說換機組了，這樣是算新的還算舊的我也搞不清楚。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][1] |
所以我們高屏，尤其是屏東沒有享受到好處，像你剛才說的整個風這樣吹過來，統統吹去屏東，中央山脈二千多公尺又把它擋住，所以我們從潮州、屏東、泰武這樣下來到來義，烏煙瘴氣，每天都這樣煙霧濛濛，以為是山嵐之氣，結果都是空污，部長你要怎麼做，新的部長看要怎麼做，不然我們要繼續死掉嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
薛部長富盛：跟蘇委員報告，這一點我感同身受啦！像最近、昨天，包括我們跟NASA的空污測站就是選定高雄跟屏東，因為我們看過去這些年來的紀錄，高屏地區空污的情況真的是特別嚴重，秋冬季節時吹北風、東北風就跑到南部來，春夏時節的東南沿岸，這些東南亞國家他們燃燒生質，吹西南風，說真的也是第一個受害…… |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
蘇委員清泉：所以夏天灰灰的，冬天也灰灰的，我們屏東的空污補助費也比不上高雄，所以我的第一個要求是屏東的空污補助要提高；第二，我今天有提案，我們要做體檢，尤其是心肺功能的，要給他們補助。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
薛部長富盛：跟蘇委員報告，這個我們…… |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
蘇委員清泉：你現在錢很多，你不用擔心啦！好嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
薛部長富盛：我們儘量來配合，我覺得這應該要做某一個程度的補助。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
蘇委員清泉：我是心臟外科的醫生，PM2.5就是癌症、心血管疾病，PM2.5、PM10就是乳癌，再來就是不孕症，那都有絕對的關係，現在年輕女性就是乳癌，肺腺癌，男的也是肺腺癌，越來越高，而且越來越年輕化，所以我很羨慕部長在澎湖享受好的空氣，我今天的提案也跟你報告了。再來是排碳，明年、後年就要收稅了嘛？對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
薛部長富盛：碳費。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
蘇委員清泉：1年要五、六千億臺幣是真的嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
薛部長富盛：沒有啦！哪有到五、六千億！ |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
蘇委員清泉：不然呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
薛部長富盛：如果是300塊，1噸300塊，一年差不多400億…… |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
蘇委員清泉：全臺灣呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
薛部長富盛：對，就是全臺灣，因為我們現在分階段，首先是對排碳量每年超過2.5萬噸，針對這種大戶大概550家，接下來實施一段時間之後，這個門檻可能會再來檢討、會繼續往下，我們覺得要淨零就必須要全民運動，光靠企業也不夠，但是根據我們的資料，的確這550家的排碳大戶就占了將近75%，所以當然是要先從這一塊來處理。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
蘇委員清泉：我們屏東一年的空氣污染超過168天，一年的一半都是紫爆，所以部長我接下來會緊盯著環境資源部，我要把你盯得緊緊的。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
薛部長富盛：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
蘇委員清泉：再來我們講屏東高鐵特定區那邊，我昨天特別質詢了相關的單位，這個是屏東高鐵站，紅紅的那塊，明揚爆炸的地方剛好離那裡1公里而已，所以我昨天要求勞動部一定要加強稽核這些化工廠，你們環境資源部有跟著monitor或者是…… |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
薛部長富盛：有，請謝署長報告一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
謝署長燕儒：報告委員，因為高鐵特定區是屬於關鍵基礎設施，所以在災防法，交通部本來在關鍵基礎設施就有一個計畫，我們會參與裡面，另外高鐵站附近就是明揚國際，這裡也有運作毒化物的廠商，所以我們也會把它涵蓋在裡面，現在監控、訓練都有在做。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
蘇委員清泉：所以這個地方要特別用心，因為這裡被人家包完了，這些地都被包完了，圍地圍完了，圍事的也圍完了，這個一定要加強，我一定會盯著，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
謝署長燕儒：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
蘇委員清泉：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
薛部長富盛：謝謝蘇委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
主席：謝謝蘇委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][1] |
接下來請陳菁徽委員發言。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
420 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-26-5 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
黃秀芳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林月琴 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
蘇清泉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
陳菁徽 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
涂權吉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
盧縣一 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
王育敏 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
王正旭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
林淑芬 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
陳冠廷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
羅廷瑋 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
黃仁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
陳昭姿 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
劉建國 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
陳瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
廖偉翔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
楊曜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[26] |
邱鎮軍 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
287 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-03-14 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1131301 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1131301_00006 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請環境部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢 |
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1131301_00005 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
8.526 |
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謝謝主席,我請部長。請部長。好,蘇委員早。部長你好。好。部長你朋友啦嘛齁?是。所以你到高中之前都在朋友嘛齁?對,我也高中畢業。啊你朋友的空氣這麼好,所以你18歲以前你的肺部是沒有被汙染的齁? |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
31.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
45.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
其實跟蘇委員報告我小時候我覺得澎湖空氣很好但是後來因為有境外的汙染事實上不只澎湖金門馬祖他在秋冬季節其實的空氣有時候變得很壞那是沙塵暴吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
50.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
67.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
包括沙塵暴也有包括工業的污染因為到冬天吼都吹北風到東北風所以我們中南部我個人身為中南部的一份子我覺得中南部事實上是還蠻受到影響的這個就是這一張slide齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
71.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
94.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
這一張是從高雄看到我們屏東的大武山北大武跟南大武那天這樣大家屏東觀眾跳到大家開心到因為難得看到這麼清楚的因為那天吹南風南風吹得很強把那個空都飛掉了下一張這就是平常時的屏東臨風啦 屏東就是這樣 沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
99.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
123.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
越來越嚴重看到這麼糟糕的那個空氣汙染我們憲政委員很高興我是覺得他們是搞不清狀況每次人去跟民眾 因為民眾沒水 只有海泥因為他看沒水 每天都有沙沙 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
125.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
145.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那你看看這全部都是高雄那些尤其是臨盆那些 臨盆那些啦新達港啦 秘密媽媽 大林 福利發電廠啦跟林彥光的這個中港 中港也有百有對的喔這些排碳啦 PM2.5啦 PM10啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
147.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
172.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
你是念奈米科技的齁 所以齁 你應該這 這很清楚齁 那我們高 屏東的肺腺癌很高 非常高齁 我不知道是不是全球第一啦齁 你看看 看看這個 你看以前是紫 紫豹 現在是紅點啦 因為怕紫豹不好看齁 所以都把那個標準降低齁 你看 這樣 都是在這沿海這一帶 所以我這裡要問部長齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
177.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
184.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
新達火力化電廠的二氧化碳CO2的排放量是台灣第幾名? |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
185.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
213.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
根文報告事實上新達火力化電廠已經在去年全部替換燃煤以燃氣來燃用乾淨的煤是不是我們總統講的用天然氣的已經全部都轉換了所以我們也非常感謝經濟部台電真的非常努力事實上新達火力化電廠已經沒有再燃煤了都是用燃氣進行新達火力化電廠的排碳量是全台灣第二名 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
214.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
224.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
全世界113名中鋼是全世界141名這都很嚴重的然後清達福利化電廠大林福利化電廠40%的電北送 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
228.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
243.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
南電北送然後這個電廠一般火力發電廠25年他已經39年40年還在搞當然你說換基礎這樣是算新的還算舊的我也搞不清楚所以我們高屏尤其是屏東 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
244.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
259.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
沒有享受到好處,整個風這樣,像你剛才說的,撥過來,都撥去屏東,中安山脈兩千多公尺又把他擋住,所以我們從潮州、屏東、太湖,這樣到來義,迷迷茫茫,以為每天都蒙蒙飄飄,以為是三藍之氣,結果都是空汙。部長,你要怎麼做?你新的部長要怎麼做?我們要繼續騷擾他嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
273.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
299.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
給蘇委員報告這一點我感同身受所以像最近昨天包括我們跟NASA的空屋策戰的那個就是選定高雄跟屏東因為我們看過去這些年來的一個紀錄真的是高屏地區空屋的情況特別嚴重秋冬季節這個吹北風東北風就跑到南部來那 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
300.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
326.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
春夏是讓我們東南沿岸這些東南亞國家他們燃燒森池吹西南風說真的也是第一個受害方式 環境大廳也滑溜大廳也滑溜啦我們屏東的空汙補助會跟國融也比不上國融所以我們第一次要求屏東的空汙補助要提高第二我今天有提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
327.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
332.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我們今天要做提檢,尤其是新費功能的,要給我們補助。 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
333.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
339.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
給蘇院報告我們盡量來配合我覺得這個是應該做某一個程度的補助我是心中的科醫生PM2.5就是跟癌症、心血管疾病PM10就是跟PM2.5、PM10有關係再來就是不孕症那都有絕對的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
362.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
386.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
現在年輕女性就是乳癌肺腺癌藍的也是肺腺癌都越來越高而且越來年輕化所以我一直在羨慕我們部長你是從在澎湖享受好的空氣所以我今天的提案也跟你報告再來就是那個排碳先明年後年要開始收稅了對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
387.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
391.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
碳費對那一年要五六千億台幣是真的嗎沒有啦哪裡有到五六千億啊沒有勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
397.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
417.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
你如果說是加速說三百塊一桶三百塊一桶也差不多四百億還是多少全台灣的對就全台灣因為我們現在分階段首先是對排碳量超過2.5萬噸每年針對這大戶大概550家 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
422.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
446.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那接下來實施一段時間之後 這個門檻可能會來檢討會繼續往下那終究我們就是覺得要進齡必須要全民運動光靠企業也不夠但是根據我們的資料的確是排蛋大戶大概是這550家就佔了將近75%所以當然是要先從這一塊來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
449.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
472.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我們屏東一年的空氣污染是超過168天整個一年是一半都是紙爆所以部長接下來我會緊盯著環保環境支援部我會盯得緊緊的再來我們講屏東我們那個高鐵特定區那邊我昨天特別 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
475.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
499.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
質詢我們相關的單位你看到這個是屏東高鐵站 紅紅一堆那些民營 長安博查的所在都要離一公里而已 一公里通啊所以這家的化工廠我昨天要求那個勞動部一定要加強契合 你們環環環保環境支援部家有得有得了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
501.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
503.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我在跟著monitor或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
504.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
531.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我們謝署長報告一下好了報告委員因為高鐵特定區它是屬於關鍵基礎設施所以在災防法下來交通部本來在關鍵基礎設施就有一個計畫我們會參與裡面另外高鐵站附近就是民航國際這裡也有運作獨奧的廠商所以我們會把它涵蓋在裡面那現在都是監控啦訓練室都在做所以這個地方要特別用心因為這個地方我們保料啦現在鐵都給我們保料 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
532.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
533.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
好謝謝蘇委員好謝謝蘇委員 |