| IVOD_ID |
149675 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149675 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-35-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-11T11:10:08+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-11T11:21:44+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:36 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9ce5e25ef4cf430023c622125da3c988af4279b9ad9aebfdf8ba9b0039caa7a674376f4625cb93f75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
賴士葆 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:10:08 - 11:21:44 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-11T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥報告「因應中共兩會召開及年底美國總統大選，就國際及兩岸局勢發展之研析」，併請國防部副部長、海洋委員會海巡署署長列席，並備質詢。） |
| gazette.lineno |
565 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
賴委員士葆：（11時10分）謝謝主席，有請蔡局長以及我們國防部副部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請蔡局長、柏副部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
賴委員士葆：我請教兩位長官，我看到前面有委員質詢過蔡局長，蔡局長說，根據情資，現在兩岸和平，大陸並沒有升高敵意。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
蔡局長明彥：對，沒有兵凶戰危…… |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
賴委員士葆：沒有兵凶戰危的氣氛。好，這時候想到我們國防部部長邱國正上個禮拜就在這裡提到了第一擊，他說只要大陸越界，請問是越什麼界？請副部長講一下，請告訴我們是越什麼界。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
柏副部長鴻輝：報告委員，這個定義非常明顯…… |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
賴委員士葆：是什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
柏副部長鴻輝：在國際法，我們所有的領空、領海都是24海里鄰接區到12海里，是我們的領海區或領空區，這就叫越界，所以越界…… |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
賴委員士葆：越過海峽中線算不算越界？ |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
柏副部長鴻輝：這條線，事實上，我們長年的默契被中共打破了。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
賴委員士葆：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
柏副部長鴻輝：但是現在我要跟委員報告的是，所有國際法的規定，任何國家只要超過12海里就是他的領海。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
賴委員士葆：12海里，另外還有一個12海里。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
柏副部長鴻輝：那個是24海里鄰接區。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
賴委員士葆：他進入鄰接區要不要管？ |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
柏副部長鴻輝：我們當然要管。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
賴委員士葆：但是不打？ |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
柏副部長鴻輝：我們所有的規定裡面，在全世界任何國家，如果你未經公告要進入這個區域的時候，我們必須廣播說你已經接近了，再進一步，如果你繼續前進，我就攔截，當攔截處置的時候，如果你還不聽，我們就會用一些驅離的動作，一直到12海里，如果進入到所有12海里以內，全世界按照聯合國第五十一條所規定的，都是行使自衛權，這個…… |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
賴委員士葆：一定要打就對了啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
柏副部長鴻輝：報告委員，我跟你說，全世界各國在處理這個…… |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
賴委員士葆：講白話就是打就對了！ |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
柏副部長鴻輝：他有很多的措施。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
賴委員士葆：還不是打？ |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
柏副部長鴻輝：這些措施我們都要看當時…… |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
賴委員士葆：「第一擊」講半天，第一擊就是要打啊！嚇嚇叫！第一擊啊！First Attack！ |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
柏副部長鴻輝：報告委員，全世界各國的作戰手法都是一樣，都是按照這樣行使自衛權的方式來處理。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
賴委員士葆：領空怎麼決定？ |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
柏副部長鴻輝：領空也是一樣，12海里的上…… |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
賴委員士葆：12海里往上就進到這裡面，但是12加12，24呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
柏副部長鴻輝：24那是鄰接區。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
賴委員士葆：要不要管？ |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
柏副部長鴻輝：當然要管。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
賴委員士葆：要怎麼管？ |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
柏副部長鴻輝：我們在鄰接區的時候，我們海巡署……國軍的情監偵單位都會廣播，說你接近我的鄰接區了。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
賴委員士葆：請問你，只要進入我們的12海里或者上面的領海領空，以我們現在的軍力，一定可以打下來對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
柏副部長鴻輝：是的。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
賴委員士葆：一定可以打下來？ |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
柏副部長鴻輝：是的。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
賴委員士葆：我們不管空對空飛彈、地對空、海對空，都可以打下來？ |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
柏副部長鴻輝：是的。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
賴委員士葆：不會像以前2016年那個雄三飛彈一樣打到我們的漁船？不會這樣子啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
柏副部長鴻輝：不會、不會。我跟委員報告，我自己是一個飛行員，我畢業的時候是1981年，民國70年畢業，事實上，我們的是飛在中共的…… |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
賴委員士葆：好，我再請教蔡局長，這個講法就是，我們當然應該這樣做，但是講出來那種感覺，就是你要來，我就打你，講白話文就是這樣嘛！我就展開第一擊，萬一他是飛錯了或者船走錯了，也要打嗎？是這樣子嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
蔡局長明彥：我想國防部有一個識別的機制。 |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
賴委員士葆：怎麼識別？你是授權給基層的人啊！只要進來就打啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
蔡局長明彥：還是有一個聯指的系統。 |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以實體越界就第一擊，這個話並不等於只要越界我就打，不能畫等號？ |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
蔡局長明彥：對，要看…… |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
賴委員士葆：能不能畫等號，我請問你。 |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
蔡局長明彥：要看現實的狀況。 |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
賴委員士葆：副部長，能不能畫等號？ |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
蔡局長明彥：這是一個原則。 |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
柏副部長鴻輝：報告委員，不能畫等號，這是一個原則。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
賴委員士葆：「原則」聽不懂啦！「原則」就聽不懂啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
柏副部長鴻輝：我跟你報告，我是個飛行員，我們的戰備規定非常清楚，如果你今天到12海里，我必須要看你這個飛機，比如說他的彈艙門是打開的，如果他有帶彈，而且他對我的威脅…… |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
賴委員士葆：你遠遠就看得到有帶彈？ |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
柏副部長鴻輝：我當然可以看到，攔截的時候是就近攔截。報告委員，如果他有敵意的話，就我們飛行員來講，他沒有敵意是搖擺機翼，就表示我要投誠，或是把彈艙丟掉，但是如果我警告射擊，他還是往這邊走，他有帶彈，那我就要視同威脅。報告委員，這都是…… |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
賴委員士葆：我就不客氣把他打下來了？ |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
柏副部長鴻輝：我們會開槍示警，全世界各國有用火焰彈在示警，這個都有。 |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
賴委員士葆：我再請教局長，國防部長的第一擊說，國防部長說他睡不著，國防部長說他常常去衡山指揮所，這些加起來兩岸都不緊張嗎？請問你緊不緊張？ |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
蔡局長明彥：我想國防部依照它的職責，對於臺海的情勢做最壞劇本的想定跟預應，這是它的權責，我們都予以…… |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
賴委員士葆：你不要做最壞的想定？ |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
蔡局長明彥：就情報單位來講，我們看的是情報的正確度。 |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以經過金廈的事件，金門廈門海域的事件到現在還沒有解決，經過這個事情，兩岸的惡意螺旋有沒有上升？有沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
蔡局長明彥：我們都有在注意相關中國的海事活動狀態。 |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
賴委員士葆：請問你有沒有上升？有沒有？沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
蔡局長明彥：目前看起來沒有特別的緊張狀況。 |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
賴委員士葆：那你打臉邱國正嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
蔡局長明彥：沒有，他是做最壞的想定…… |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
賴委員士葆：邱國正說……我就問他，他說現在在高原期，然後最近的事情又上升一點，如果這個事情少一點的話又下來一點，所以你是打臉他耶！ |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
蔡局長明彥：我跟委員說明一下，在2月14號發生事件之後，2月17號中共有做了一些政策宣示，後面的幾天確實有一些海事的活動，但是從3月1號開始，這些海事的活動已經趨於平靜，所以目前並沒有特殊的狀況在金廈水域。 |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以它是不是上去再下來？是不是這個意思？ |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
蔡局長明彥：它有一個相關活動的頻密程度，我們都有在注意。 |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
賴委員士葆：我再請問你，我站在這個地方問你的，你不敢承諾，你不敢回答，你的上一任局長叫陳明通，他公開說，蔡英文任內不會打仗，兩岸不會打仗，你說你不敢接招，你有沒有這樣講？你Google一下，蔡明彥說他不敢這樣講。 |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
蔡局長明彥：我說兩岸會不會打仗，不是會或不會，一定要有一些相關的條件…… |
| gazette.blocks[75][0] |
賴委員士葆：你Google一下就好了，你Google一下，我今天還特別Google，就是賴士葆問的。 |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
蔡局長明彥：我記得委員有問。 |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
賴委員士葆：還記得吧！就是你啊，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
蔡局長明彥：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[79][0] |
賴委員士葆：我們帥哥局長啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[80][0] |
蔡局長明彥：沒有，要依照指標跟環境來判斷。 |
| gazette.blocks[81][0] |
賴委員士葆：然後我就說，你打臉陳明通。 |
| gazette.blocks[82][0] |
蔡局長明彥：並沒有，他有他的觀察，我有我的判斷。 |
| gazette.blocks[83][0] |
賴委員士葆：到現在為止，現在剩沒幾天，對不對？你可以講話了吧！520之前一定不會打仗，可以講了吧！ |
| gazette.blocks[84][0] |
蔡局長明彥：不是會、不會，我剛剛已經講了，沒有戰爭一觸即發的情資，目前真的沒有。 |
| gazette.blocks[85][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以520之前也沒有嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[86][0] |
蔡局長明彥：對，目前沒有看到。 |
| gazette.blocks[87][0] |
賴委員士葆：是嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[88][0] |
蔡局長明彥：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[89][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以我替你講，你都不敢接招，你是怎樣啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[90][0] |
蔡局長明彥：沒有，我們回答委員的問題非常謹慎。 |
| gazette.blocks[91][0] |
賴委員士葆：白話文就是在520蔡英文總統卸任之前不會發生戰爭嘛！這樣講就對了，我替你講，你不要講，「驚驚」。 |
| gazette.blocks[92][0] |
蔡局長明彥：尊重委員的詮釋。 |
| gazette.blocks[93][0] |
賴委員士葆：你說我的詮釋很正確，不是尊重，是同意，可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[94][0] |
蔡局長明彥：我們有我們的指標啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[95][0] |
賴委員士葆：你還不敢說，「驚驚」，我跟你說，「驚驚袂著等」。現在來看的話，老共那裡推出一個新的名詞，過去叫反獨促統，現在叫打獨促統，它為什麼從「反」變成「打」，你要不要講一下？ |
| gazette.blocks[96][0] |
蔡局長明彥：事實上，反獨、促統、促融跟反對外力介入，一直是中共對臺政策的主要依據。 |
| gazette.blocks[97][0] |
賴委員士葆：打獨呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[98][0] |
蔡局長明彥：一直就反獨，一直都是…… |
| gazette.blocks[99][0] |
賴委員士葆：不是，現在是講打獨喔！它最新的講法是打獨。 |
| gazette.blocks[100][0] |
蔡局長明彥：相關的文字我們都有在注意啦！也不要忘了它的和平統一也是現在有在…… |
| gazette.blocks[101][0] |
賴委員士葆：反獨跟打獨是一樣的？是不是？打獨跟反獨是一樣的？ |
| gazette.blocks[102][0] |
蔡局長明彥：字義上我們會來觀察有沒有…… |
| gazette.blocks[103][0] |
賴委員士葆：我都認為這個打獨是針對賴清德來的啦！因為他是務實臺獨工作者，所以針對他來的，叫他說你安靜，你最好是follow蔡英文的路線，這樣比較沒事，「趴著比較不會中槍」。 |
| gazette.blocks[104][0] |
蔡局長明彥：我們剛剛也提到了，中共對臺政策還是壓、拉兩手啦！可能在520前後，它還是會有相關施壓的動作來影響我們兩岸政策的走向，確實會有這樣的趨勢，我們會予以注意，謝謝委員提醒。 |
| gazette.blocks[105][0] |
賴委員士葆：不會說賴清德要上來之前，特別加強這個力度，不會喔？ |
| gazette.blocks[106][0] |
蔡局長明彥：它這是長期一貫的作法，有壓迫，有拉攏…… |
| gazette.blocks[107][0] |
賴委員士葆：我請教你一個問題，大家很關心的，陸委會一直說不是它做的決定，但是大家都認為一定是國安會議做的決定，關於禁止赴陸團的出團，請問有沒有開國安會議？有沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[108][0] |
蔡局長明彥：就團客的部分，它涉及到兩岸政策跟我們的觀光…… |
| gazette.blocks[109][0] |
賴委員士葆：我就問你，因為我的時間到了，有沒有開國安會議，你告訴我。 |
| gazette.blocks[110][0] |
蔡局長明彥：就國安局的角度來講，有徵詢我們的意見，我們會提供相關…… |
| gazette.blocks[111][0] |
賴委員士葆：你有沒有參與那個會議？ |
| gazette.blocks[112][0] |
蔡局長明彥：有諮詢到我們的話，我們一定會提供我們的意見。 |
| gazette.blocks[113][0] |
賴委員士葆：你有沒有參加那個會議？你要回答我啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[114][0] |
蔡局長明彥：我們的會議有它自己內部的機密等級，我沒辦法…… |
| gazette.blocks[115][0] |
賴委員士葆：請問你這個有沒有開會？ |
| gazette.blocks[116][0] |
蔡局長明彥：有，相關的都有一直…… |
| gazette.blocks[117][0] |
賴委員士葆：有嘛，就有會議嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[118][0] |
蔡局長明彥：一再的討論…… |
| gazette.blocks[119][0] |
賴委員士葆：你在場嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[120][0] |
蔡局長明彥：各部會也有，業管機關包括交通部跟陸委會也有開會…… |
| gazette.blocks[121][0] |
賴委員士葆：你有沒有在場？我問你，有沒有在場？ |
| gazette.blocks[122][0] |
蔡局長明彥：相關的會議我們都有派人參加。 |
| gazette.blocks[123][0] |
賴委員士葆：你有沒有在場？ |
| gazette.blocks[124][0] |
蔡局長明彥：我們都有派人參加。 |
| gazette.blocks[125][0] |
賴委員士葆：就是你啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[126][0] |
蔡局長明彥：我們都有派人參加。 |
| gazette.blocks[127][0] |
賴委員士葆：派人就是派你自己蔡明彥。 |
| gazette.blocks[128][0] |
蔡局長明彥：但出席者是誰，這是會議內部的資訊，我沒辦法對外揭露，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[129][0] |
賴委員士葆：對嘛！所以我就問你一個，這個決定是國安會議的決定，對吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[130][0] |
蔡局長明彥：這應該是一個跨部會討論的結果。 |
| gazette.blocks[131][0] |
賴委員士葆：對嘛！你就一直不講，我就沒辦法下去…… |
| gazette.blocks[132][0] |
蔡局長明彥：但我要跟委員說明的是，交通部和陸委會也都有召會，他們也都有召會，都有！ |
| gazette.blocks[133][0] |
賴委員士葆：邱太三邱主委說他沒參加啦！他是派人參加的。你的說起來就比較模稜兩可，我看是有參加啦！這個問題很嚴重，這個問題讓賴清德很不好做事，蔡英文現在放一炮給賴清德，他很難做事，因為所有的旅遊業者都反彈，這是很嚴重的事情，也是國安危機喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[134][0] |
蔡局長明彥：這是跨部會討論的結果，我們尊重業管單位開放的期程規劃，謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[135][0] |
賴委員士葆：好吧！最後還是要問你，你認為賴清德未來執政裡面，兩岸可不可能打仗？ |
| gazette.blocks[136][0] |
蔡局長明彥：我想怎麼樣來防止委員講的這件事情的發生，是我們國安團隊最優先的責任。 |
| gazette.blocks[137][0] |
賴委員士葆：你要想辦法讓這個事情不會發生啦。 |
| gazette.blocks[138][0] |
蔡局長明彥：這是我們的責任。 |
| gazette.blocks[139][0] |
賴委員士葆：好啦，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[140][0] |
蔡局長明彥：謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[141][0] |
主席：謝謝。現在休息5分鐘。 |
| gazette.blocks[141][1] |
休息（11時21分） |
| gazette.blocks[141][2] |
繼續開會（11時27分） |
| gazette.blocks[142][0] |
主席：我們繼續開會。 |
| gazette.blocks[142][1] |
接下來請蘇清泉委員。蘇清泉、蘇清泉委員不在。 |
| gazette.blocks[142][2] |
請鄭正鈐委員。鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐委員不在。 |
| gazette.blocks[142][3] |
請張啓楷委員。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
324 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-35-4 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
馬文君 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
沈伯洋 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
羅美玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
徐巧芯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
林楚茵 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
陳冠廷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
吳宗憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
陳永康 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
林憶君 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
王定宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
黃仁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
洪申翰 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
271 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-03-11 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1131001 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1131001_00010 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥報告「因應中共兩會召開及年底美國總統大選，就國際及兩岸局勢發
展之研析」，併請國防部副部長、海洋委員會海巡署署長列席，並備質詢 |
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1131001_00012 |
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我請教兩位長官我看到前面有委員質詢過蔡局長蔡局長說根據情勢現在兩岸和平 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
28.926 |
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41.332 |
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大陸並沒有身高敵對,沒有兵凶戰危的沒有兵凶戰危的氣氛好,這個就使我想到這個我們國防部的部長邱國正上個禮拜就在這裡他提到了第一集第一集他說只要大陸的他講的就是大陸嘛越界 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
53.398 |
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69.872 |
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請問是越什麼界那個副部長要不要講一下越什麼界告訴我們報告委員這個定義非常明顯是什麼在國際法或我們的所有的領空領海都是二十海領界邊到涉海裡是我們的領海區或領空區這就叫越界 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
71.433 |
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89.044 |
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因為海峽中線算不算越界這個條線事實上我們長年的默契被中共打破了對但是現在我要跟委員報告的我們所有國際法的規定任何國家只要超過12海里就是他的臨海12海里另外還有一個12海里啊那個是24海林階林階區林階區他進到林階要不要管 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
92.686 |
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119.939 |
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我們當然要管但是我們所有的規定裡面在全世界任何國家都是如果你未經公告要進到這個區域的時候我們必須要廣播你已經接近了再進一步你繼續前進我就攔截當攔截處置的時候如果你還不聽那我們就會用一些驅離的動作一直到12海里如果說進入到所有12海里以內全世界按照聯合國第51條 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
121.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
121.54 |
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發言委員：賴士葆 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
150.621 |
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157.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
領空也是一樣12海浬的上上延伸所以進到這裡那這是12再加1224呢24那是臨界區要不要管當然要管那怎麼管我們在臨界區的時候我們海巡署廣播廣播國軍的情監偵單位都會廣播所以你已經接近我的臨界區了請問你喔是只要進入我們的12海浬或者上面的臨海領空 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
176.616 |
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177.256 |
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我跟委員報告我自己是一個飛行員 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
202.694 |
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212.261 |
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在這個我畢業的時候是1981年是民國70年畢業的時候事實上我們這是非在中共的幹線的事來我就請教這個局長蔡局長這個講法就是我們當然應該這樣做但是講出來那種感覺就是你要來我就打你那種講保安就是這樣嘛我就第一期稍微如果萬一他是 |
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229.813 |
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233.795 |
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所以 越界實體越界就第1集這個話並不等於只要越界我就打 不能話等於話能不能話等於話我請問你副部長能不能話等於話 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
258.971 |
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285.687 |
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這是個原則啦報告委員不能話等齁這是個原則原則聽不懂原則都聽不懂原則聽不懂報告委員我跟您報告我是個飛行員齁我們的戰備規定非常清楚如果你今天到蛇海裡我必須要看你這個飛機比如說它的彈艙門是打開的如果它有帶彈而且它都有個威脅你遠遠就看得到有帶彈我當然可以看到攔截的時候是就近攔截報告委員如果它有敵意的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
287.06 |
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301.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這位我們分析員來講他沒有敵意是搖擺記憶就表示說我要投誠或是把彈槍丟掉但是如果我警告社企他還是往這邊走他有帶彈那我就要視同威脅這都是我就不客氣把他打下來了我們會開槍示警全世界各國有用火焰彈的在全世界都有來來來等一下我再請教局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
310.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
330.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
國防部長的第一局說,國防部長說他睡不著,國防部長說他常常去衡商指揮所,這些加起來,兩岸都不緊張嗎?請不緊張,請問你。對,我想國防部依照他的職責,對於台海的情勢做最壞劇本的想定跟預印,這是他的全責,我們都預印。你不要做最壞的想定。 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
331.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
338.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
對,我們就情報單位來講,我們看的是情報的正確度。所以經過今夏的事件,金門、廈門的海域的事件,到現在還沒解決,經過這個事情,兩岸的惡意螺旋沒有上升,沒有?我們都有在注意相關中央的海事活動的狀態,目前看起來沒有特別的緊張狀況。那你打臉邱國正啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
355.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
356.8 |
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我跟委員說明一下在2月14號發生事件之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
373.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
377.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
所以他是要上去再下來嗎?是不是這個意思?他有一個相關活動的頻密程度,我們都有在注意我再請問你,我知道這個一定要問你的你不敢承諾,你不敢回答你的上一任的局長叫陳明通 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
403.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
412.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
他公開說蔡英文任內不會打仗兩岸不會打仗你說你不敢接招你不要這樣講你Google一下Google一下蔡明彥說他不敢不敢這樣講我說兩岸會不會打仗不是會或不會一定要有一些相關的條件你Google一下就好了你Google一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
427.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
435.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我今天還特別Google就是賴士葆問的賴士葆還記得嗎?就是你啊對不對?我們帥哥局長啊然後我就說你打臉陳明通好那到現在為止現在剩沒幾天嘛對不對你可以講話了吧我話你之前一定不會打這樣可以講了吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
451.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
451.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
賴士葆 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
481.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
485.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
對,事實上反獨、促統、促融跟反對外力介入一直是中共對台政策的主要依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
510.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
513.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我都認為這個打獨是針對賴清德來的啦因為他是務實台獨工作者所以針對他來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
538.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
562.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
對我們剛剛也提到了中共對台政策還是壓拉兩手那可能在520前後他還是會有相關施壓動作來影響我們兩岸政策走向確實會有這樣的趨勢我們會予以注意謝謝委員提醒這個不會說賴清德要上來之前特別加強這個力度不會喔對阿他這是長期一貫的做法有壓迫另外我請教一個問題那個大家很關心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
564.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
588.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
委員會一直說不是他做的決定但是大家都認為一定是國安會議做的決定禁止副陸團的出團請問有沒有開國安會議有沒有就團課的部分呢他涉及到有兩岸政策跟我們的觀光不對我就問你有沒有時間到了有沒有開國安會議你告訴我就國安局的角度來講有徵詢的意見我們會提供相關你有沒有參與那個會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
590.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
618.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
就有諮詢到我們的話我們就會提供我們的意見你有沒有參加那個會議?你回答我啊!我們的會議他有他自己的內部的機密等請問你這個有沒有開會?禁止!有嘛!就有會議嘛!你在場嘛!一再的討論你在場嘛!業管機關包括交通部跟包括你有沒有在場?我問你你有沒有在場?相關的會議我們都有派人參加你有沒有在場?我們都有派人參加就是你啊! |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
619.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
622.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這應該是一個跨部會討論的一個結果,跨部會討論結果,但是我跟委員說明的是交通部跟陸委會也都有招會,他們都有招會 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
643.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
665.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那個邱大山、邱主委說他沒有參加啦,派人參加啦,啊你的說起來就比較慕你能可,我看是有參加啦齁,這個東西,這個問題很嚴重啦,這個問題引起賴清德很不好做事,蔡英文現在放一炮給賴清德,他很難做事,因為所有的旅遊業者都反彈。 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
666.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
674.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
很嚴重的事情這也是國安危機喔這是跨部會討論的結果我們尊重夜館單位的開放的期程的規劃謝謝委員好吧這個最後還在問你你認為賴清的外來執政裡面兩岸可不可能來打仗 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
685.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
689.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我想怎麼樣來防止委員講的這件事情發生是我們國安團隊最優先的責任。 |