| IVOD_ID |
149462 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149462 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-07 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-19-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-07T09:45:04+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-07T09:55:51+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:47 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1441ba9c2015bdbe5d044bf3334484d83ebf0b3ad7e91c05f8ba9b0039caa7a6d1e703fc5f35cbd05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張啓楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:45:04 - 09:55:51 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-07T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長率台灣電力股份有限公司董事長就「電價調漲對產業、民生等衝擊研擬配套措施」進行報告，並備質詢。【3月4日、3月6日及7日三天一次會】） |
| gazette.lineno |
213 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
張委員啓楷：（9時45分）謝謝召委，請王部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：我們再請王部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
王部長美花：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
張委員啓楷：部長你辛苦了，不過人民也很苦，請苦民所苦，民生第一，電價不要漲，特別是民生電價絕對不要漲！ |
| gazette.blocks[3][1] |
我先請教你第一個問題，你今天有拿錯報告嗎？你看你報告的第4頁跟第5頁，調整電價你強調的都是什麼？包括你剛剛口頭報告都是要照顧民生、穩定物價，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
王部長美花：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
張委員啓楷：可是你的作為，這個都是你在強調去年2020年跟2023年做的，以前你的努力，可是你今天是要調電價、漲電價，連民生都要漲，你這不會前功盡棄、不會打臉自己嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
王部長美花：其實我們就是一直有這樣的一個大原則，所以對民生的部分或者小商家部分的漲幅一直都緩漲或是…… |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
張委員啓楷：所以你現在還在努力嗎？沒有像媒體一直在報導的、已經確定是要漲了？包括1,000度、連330度的全部都要漲嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
王部長美花：電價審議委員會那邊才會去決定，所以現在應該是媒體的意見，最後的情形應該是電價審議會去決定。那我在報告裡面講的就是說，300度以下、特別是120度以下，目前的電價…… |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
張委員啓楷：抱歉部長，你已經說很多次了，不用讓你再重複一次，你很辛苦啦，我現在只要強調電價不要漲，特別是民生的不要漲，因為它會違反你自己提出來的照顧民生、穩定物價。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][1] |
另外再強調一個重點，我們看一下下一張圖，現在絕對不是漲電價的好時機，主計總處剛公布對不對？它說什麼？現在實質薪資縮減的幅度是11年來最大，我們現在在座每一個人的薪水、全國每一個人的薪水總平均都追不上物價，這時候怎麼可以去漲電價呢？我們薪水已經追不上物價了，你還去讓通膨更往上嗎？所以時間點是不對的。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][2] |
第二個，我們看看這個圖，近7年來實質的薪資，你有沒有看到從2018年開始往下降，到了去年的時候是-1.04，當我們實質的薪水、在座每一個人及全國每一個民眾實質薪水都追不上物價的時候，你們怎麼這時候火上加油呢？你這不是前功盡棄嗎？你去年跟前年都那麼努力，今年為什麼要漲呢？這不是自己打嘴巴嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
王部長美花：委員，我報告也講得很清楚，因為台電目前累積的虧損跟今年的持續虧損其實會造成台電財務上很大的壓力。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
張委員啓楷：部長你很辛苦，我知道、我知道！你現在在「追錢」啦。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
王部長美花：是，所以我們其實…… |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
張委員啓楷：可是「追錢」不能只有從人民身上拔毛！ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
王部長美花：所以我們…… |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
張委員啓楷：對人民來講，電價一漲物價跟著漲，這就剝兩層皮嘛，對不對？對政客來講，可能現在選舉過後了，以前山盟海誓，對不對？現在「漲價歹勢」，對政客來講可能是最好的一個漲價時間點，可是對人民來講，物價也要漲、電價也要漲，情何以堪！ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
王部長美花：謝謝委員的意見，我們其實是就一個…… |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
張委員啓楷：部長，以前阿扁從2004年開始也不敢漲，馬英九8年雖然有油電雙漲，可是他在民生用電也都不敢漲啊，已經整整20年了，一漲你的歷史定位就是20年來第一個漲民生電價的王美花王部長，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
王部長美花：但是委員，對於俄烏戰爭造成這樣燃料的乖離也是從來沒有看過的情形，所以這樣的一個情形其實是很不一樣的情境下，那台電已經在…… |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
張委員啓楷：剛剛連你們執政黨的立委都提說要開源節流，對不對？我在總質詢已經提了很多降低成本、開源節流的方法，等一下我們再進一步談。請你給我資料。有太多可以做，所以我們從開源…… |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
王部長美花：我們現在其實也有在做。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
張委員啓楷：降低成本跟開源節流，這樣你可以省下很多錢。台電的董事長在這裡，你們之前是金雞母，到底是誰把它搞壞的？不是只有單純的國際因素吧？有太多問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
王部長美花：最主要是…… |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
張委員啓楷：來，我現在先提一個重點，第一個，部長跟董事長應該都贊成，這時候漲物價絕對上去，對人民的衝擊一定很大，對不對？時間點又不對。現在人民對什麼事情生氣？人民為什麼要生氣？董事長，現在台電在虧錢，人民在付錢，對不對？結果民間電廠還有那些能源業者，包括太陽能賺大錢，現在生氣的是不是這個？台電虧錢，人民付錢，民間的電廠跟能源公司，只要是你們去買電的都賺大錢。你們要努力做什麼事情？讓台電少虧一點，讓人民不要漲電價，民間電廠有利潤可以少賺，合理的、該給你的…… |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
王部長美花：這個部分…… |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
張委員啓楷：我們是從這邊…… |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
王部長美花：我們都非常仔細，民營電廠的成本跟合理的利潤其實都抓得非常嚴格。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
張委員啓楷：上禮拜臺南市長黃偉哲被約談，你知道這件事嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
王部長美花：我知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
張委員啓楷：你們去買太陽能，買太貴，買了一堆弊案出來了，這不用解決嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
王部長美花：我跟委員報告…… |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
張委員啓楷：黃偉哲這個案子的力暘……。這樣好不好？你把你們跟他們買電的購電合約書送到本席的辦公室，也送一份到經濟委員會，我們詳細看裡面到底有沒有問題，要不然變成各說各話。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
王部長美花：沒有問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
張委員啓楷：我們是幫人民監督，也是幫人民省錢。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
曾次長文生：那個是標準契約。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
王部長美花：這個都是按照相關…… |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
張委員啓楷：黃偉哲那個案子，力暘的購電合約書可以送到我們這邊來嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
王部長美花：這個沒有問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
張委員啓楷：董事長，我們詳細幫你們檢驗，幫人民把錢省下來，不要再產生弊案。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
曾次長文生：報告委員，其實您是財經專業，完全知道躉購合約都是標準合約，只有公司名稱不一樣，不同年份的躉購費率是費率委員會審查出來，就只有這個不一樣，其他都一樣…… |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
張委員啓楷：對，合約…… |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
曾次長文生：是標準合約。 |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
張委員啓楷：沒有關係，你把購電合約拿過來，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
曾次長文生：報告委員…… |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
張委員啓楷：不只給我一份，也給我們委員會，我們詳細檢視，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
曾次長文生：你是財經專業，有很多財經的背景…… |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
張委員啓楷：我知道，我們兩個都是財經專業。 |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
曾次長文生：我們可以討論。 |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
張委員啓楷：來，總質詢的時候，我跟部長、院長要了一個資料，你們跟民間電廠買電買太貴，決算書上面寫得清清楚楚。那一天你一直在講國際因素，我給你看，台電本身也用燃煤，你去買電，民間的電廠也是用燃煤，結果你看，111年台電自己發電用燃煤是多少？1度電是3.57，到了112年往下降，3.57變成3.43，結果你到民間電廠買，不只沒有降，還往上，從3.69變成4.15，他們會不賺太多了？當初李登輝…… |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
王部長美花：不是，委員…… |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
張委員啓楷：我唸給你聽…… |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
王部長美花：這個有很多因素，譬如說，台電的電廠比較舊，它本來就折舊比較多了，民間的電廠相對比較新，這個都有相關的審議機制。 |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
張委員啓楷：部長，這個很複雜，最重要的原則是什麼？當初要買電，那時候定的原則是什麼？這是你們給我的回復，台電公司是以避免成本的原則購電，也就是說，它購電的價格是什麼？不能高於購電當時的市場行情。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
曾次長文生：是啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
張委員啓楷：就是要比較低，結果你買的比較高，而且高出太多。 |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
曾次長文生：委員，這一題不是這樣解讀，避免成本就是我要多發那一些電，邊際上的那些發電成本，我如果沒有用燃煤，而是用輕柴油，它的發電成本會比較高，所以它的「避免」是這樣子算，其實這個我們都很清楚。 |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
張委員啓楷：董事長，你講的是一個標準，可是這裡面清清楚楚，剛開始李登輝為什麼要跟九家民營電廠買電？那時候就追求效率跟成本要降低。 |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
曾次長文生：那個時候認為…… |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
張委員啓楷：這個是你提供給我的基本原則，我唸一次給大家聽，全國的民眾都可以聽得到，台電是以避免成本原則購電，也就是說，它購買的電價不得高於購電當時的市場行情。你已經高了，而且高那麼多，這個是開源節流該做的嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
曾次長文生：委員，市場行情的狀況是這樣，就是邊際一度電的成本，這個您都很清楚，邊際成本一定會是增加的。 |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
張委員啓楷：董事長，這樣好不好？你把這九間當初的合約拿來，你也是財經專家，我們來對一對，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
曾次長文生：那個沒問題，合約都在。 |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
張委員啓楷：好，不要急著漲價，特別是民生電價，至少做這三件事情，台電賠錢的時候，民間電廠賺大錢，這個要不要改？從光電跟民間公司。第二個，太陽光電是買多買貴，弊案叢生要處理。當然，核電是很便宜的，你們不用，這沒關係，現在反正國會三黨不過半，柯文哲跟民眾黨已經講了，核二、核三延役，總體檢核四，國民黨也贊成，到時候立法院如果過了，我們一步一步走，好不好？不過最重要的拜託部長跟董事長，苦民所苦，不要漲電價，特別是民生電價，好不好？謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
主席：謝謝，接下來我們請謝衣鳯委員詢答。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
250 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-19-2 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
林岱樺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
邱議瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
呂玉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
陳超明 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
洪申翰 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
陳冠廷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
徐巧芯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
王世堅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
王美惠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
劉建國 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
林俊憲 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
187 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-03-07 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1130801 |
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1130801_00005 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請經濟部部長率台灣電力股份有限公司董事長就「電價調漲對產業、民生等衝擊研擬配套措
施」進行報告，並備質詢 |
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1130801_00004 |
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齊凱委員請做詢答。 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
29.945 |
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謝謝趙薇請王部長我們再請王部長委員好部長你辛苦了不過人民也很苦請苦民所苦民生第一電價不要漲特別是民生電價絕對不要漲我先請教你第一個問題你今天報告有聽到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
58.564 |
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83.323 |
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你今天有拿錯報告嗎?你看你報告的第4月跟第5月調整電價你強調的都是什麼?包括你剛剛口頭報告都是要照顧民生穩定不給對不對?是可是你的作為這個都是你在強調去年2020年跟2023年做的以前你的努力是可是你今天是要調電價 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
85.051 |
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88.293 |
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所以你現在還在努力嗎?沒有像媒體一直在報導的已經確定是要漲了,包括1000度1000度跟連330度的全部都要漲嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
113.892 |
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114.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
我現在只要強調電價不要漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
137.27 |
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155.695 |
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特別是民生的不要漲因為它會違反你自己提出來的照顧民生穩定物價另外再強調一個重點來我們看一下下一張圖現在絕對不是漲電價的好時機主計總署剛才講過對不對他說什麼現在實質性資金這個縮減的幅度是11年來最大 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
162.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
190.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我們現在在座每一個人的薪水全國每一個人的薪水總平均都追不上物價這時候怎麼可以去漲電價呢?我們的薪水已經追不上物價了你還要去讓通膨更往上嗎?所以時間點是不對的第二個我們看看這個圖近7年來實質的薪資2018年開始往下降到了去年的時候是負1.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
193.988 |
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208.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
當我們實質的薪水在座每一個人全國每一個民眾實質薪水都追不上物價的時候你們什麼時候火上加油呢?你這不是前功盡棄嗎?你去年跟前年都那麼努力今年為什麼要漲呢?這不是自己打嘴巴嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
212.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
230.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我報告也講得很清楚齁那因為台電的目前的累積的虧損跟今年的持續虧損其實是會造成台電很大的一個財務上的一個壓力啦你現在很急啦可是很急不可以只有從人民身上拔毛那個對人民來講電價一漲物價跟著漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
235.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
262.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
這是撥兩層皮嘛 對不對對政客來講．對政客來講．可能現在選舉過後了．已經三明開始對不對．現在暫假不好意思．對政客來講．可能是最好的一個暫假時間點．可是對人民來講．物價也要漲．電價也要漲．情何以堪謝謝委員意見我們其實是就一個．部長以前阿扁為2004年開始阿扁也不敢去啊． |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
263.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
278.166 |
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對嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
278.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
307.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
但是委員對於這樣惡霧戰爭造成了這樣的燃料的乖離也是從來沒有看過的情形所以這樣的一個情形其實是很不一樣的情境下那台電已經在過往...連你們執政黨的立委都提說要開源節流對不對我在總執行已經提了很多降低成本開源節流的方法等一下我們進幕再談包括我請你給我資料有太多可以做啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
308.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
332.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
所以我從開研降低成本跟開研去節流 讓你可以省下很多錢 台電的董事長在這 欸 文森 你們之前是經濟母欸 到底誰把他搞壞的 不是只有單純的國際的這個因素吧 有太多太多問題 所以我現在先提一個重點 第一個 連部長跟董事長應該都贊成 這時候漲 物價節率上去 對人民衝擊一定是很大 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
334.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
359.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
時間點又不對時間點又不對來進一步我們來看看下一張現在人民在想什麼事情人民為什麼那麼生氣欸那個董事長現在就是說台電在虧錢人民在付錢對不對結果民間電廠還有那些能源列車包括太陽能咧他們賺大錢現在生氣的是不是這個台電虧錢人民付錢民間的電廠跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
361.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
361.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
您知道這件事情嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
389.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
397.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我知道,是太陽能,你們去買太陽能買太貴買了一堆弊案出來了這個不用去解決嗎我跟韋某剛好黃偉哲這個案子,這個立揚 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
400.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
423.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這樣好不好,你把那個利養,你們跟他買電的,購電那個合約書送到本席的辦公室來也送一份到,欸趙偉,送一份到我們經濟委員會來我們詳細來看裡面到底有沒有問題,要不要各說各話啊我們是幫人民監督,也是幫人民省錢嘛把利養,把利養黃偉哲那個案子,利養的那個購電的合約書可以送到我們這邊來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
424.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
427.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這個沒有問題沒問題我們詳細董事長我們詳細來幫你們檢驗報告委員其實你是財經專業你完全知道短購的合約都是標準合約只有公司名稱不一樣不同年份的 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
441.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
443.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
總質詢的時候部長我跟你跟院長要了一個資料我們跟民間電廠買電買太貴 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
466.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
483.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這個都是你們的決算書上面清清楚楚同樣那天你一直在講國際因素我給你看說台電本身也用燃煤你去買電民間的這個電廠也是用燃煤現在給你看111年你們台電自己發的用燃煤是多少3.571度 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
485.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
512.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
到了112年是往下降了357變成343結果你到民間電廠去買欸你不只沒有降你要往上啊你從369變成415欸我們不會賺少錢欸不是不是當初李登輝說明天買電欸我聽你聽委員這個有很多因素齁譬如說台電的電廠比較舊它的折舊本來就是折舊比較多了那民間的電廠相對是比較新所以這個都有相關的審議的機制很可惜的啦最重要的原則是什麼董事長要買電 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
517.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
529.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那時候訂的原則是你們給我的回覆囉台電公司是以避免成本的原則去購電也就是說它購電的價格是什麼不能高於購電當時市場行情 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
532.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
536.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
市長你講的是一個標準可是這裡面清清楚楚講包括剛開始李登輝為什麼要跟9家的名店長買電 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
560.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
580.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那時候就追效率跟成本要降低嘛 那個時候是認為說 這就是你提給我的基本價基本的 大家全國的民眾都可以聽得到 台電是以避免成本原則購電也就是說他購買電價不得高於購電當時的市場行情 你已經高了而且高那麼多 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
581.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
600.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
市場行情狀況是這樣,就是編記一度電的成本,這個您都很清楚,編記成本一定會出現高的。董事長這樣好不好,你把這9家,董事長,你屬這高經的當初的這個合約我們拿來,你也是財經專家,我們來對一對好不好,好,做三件事情,不要急著漲價,特別是民生的電價,至少做這三件事情。 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
602.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
604.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
韓電你賠錢的時候,你民間電廠是不是賺大錢? |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
604.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
618.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這個要不要改?從關電跟民間公司。第二個,太陽關電是不是買多買貴?必然重生,要處理。當然,核電是很便宜的,你們不用,這沒關係。現在反正國會三黨不過半。現在柯文哲跟民眾們已經講了,核二核三演議嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
619.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
647.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
謝謝 |