| IVOD_ID |
149407 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149407 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-06 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-19-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-06T12:00:51+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-06T12:12:47+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:56 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/aa454a369d2b172fe821af39815767a68e47b20f39b04ac8f8ba9b0039caa7a6b8e0b699dbe74fe85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:00:51 - 12:12:47 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-06T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家發展委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【3月4日、3月6日及7日三天一次會】） |
| gazette.lineno |
1175 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
黃委員國昌：（12時1分）謝謝主席，有請主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：我們再請龔主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：黃委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
黃委員國昌：主委好。6年前我在經濟委員會開始追一個離譜到不行的弊案啦！那個時候我一直搞不清楚，我們的國發基金丟了15億給一家莫名其妙的公司叫「如興」，我們的國發基金應該是要促進產業升級轉型，結果去投了一家在做牛仔布代工廠的，媒體在批評，我在立法院持續的追，結果我搞不清楚這個「如興」背後到底是誰當靠山？讓我們的國發基金投了15億下去，讓它在臺灣的投資市場騙廣大的投資人，把錢洗到中國裡面去，胡搞瞎搞！我那個時候問陳美伶，陳美伶說投資評估過程嚴謹，可昭公信。請教一下今天的主委，今天的國發會還會認為投資「如興」是過程嚴謹、可昭公信嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：報告委員，它評估過程就是按照所有的案子，是一模一樣的，沒有特殊…… |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
黃委員國昌：對，所以這樣的一個結果，你們今天看認為過程嚴謹嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
黃委員國昌：認為過程嚴謹嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：這個…… |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
黃委員國昌：如果嚴謹的過程出來是這樣的結果，代表你們整個審議機制有問題啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：報告委員，這個後來監察院有來調查，當然也有給我們建議，這個案子…… |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
黃委員國昌：監察院什麼時候調查的？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：應該是去年還前年就出來了…… |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
黃委員國昌：等到出事才調查有什麼用？我2018年站在這邊一而再，再而三地告訴國發基金有問題、有問題，趕快處理！現在站在你旁邊的這位蘇來守，帶著人到辦公室來跟我說國發會一定會處理，處理了什麼？什麼都沒有處理！為什麼我敢這樣講？你們說重大投資案過程嚴謹，調出會議紀錄，開什麼會啊？不是代理就是請假，典型的先射箭再畫靶，這些人有開什麼會啊？結果最後的結果是什麼？決策草率、黑箱操作，財報造假、詐騙投資人，把臺灣無辜投資大眾的錢吸來了以後洗到中國去污。2018年我一直提醒國發會說要處理，處理了什麼？處理了什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：報告委員，就是說我們在董事會裡面也有派代表啦！所以…… |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
黃委員國昌：所以勒？派了代表以後，然後呢？處理了什麼？請你告訴我處理了什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：到後來因為董事長的個人因素也被起訴…… |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
黃委員國昌：所以你們到今天認為這是個人因素喔？那個財報造假，什麼時候造假的你知道嗎？你知道嗎？國發會投的時候就是假的了，不是後來才是假的耶！你們怎麼評估的？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：那個財報當時來講是有報金管會，當初已經看過了。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
黃委員國昌：所以呢？所以你們看過、金管會看過，大家分擔責任，最後誰要負責？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：發現造假那是事後，所以我們事後當然要有因應的措施。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
黃委員國昌：所以嘛！我就問你嘛！你們那個時候採取什麼措施？我一而再，再而三提醒國發會要處理，處理了什麼？我今天就問這個簡單的問題，處理了什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：後來投保中心有提告，我們也跟…… |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
黃委員國昌：對嘛！那也是出事以後嘛！那是2022年的事耶！我拜託你啊！2018年到2022年，我離開立法院以後，我跟吹哨人合作，我們鍥而不捨在追蹤這個案件，我就問你嘛！2018年提醒你們這件事，到後來被起訴，你們國發會幹了什麼？派了董事去幹了什麼？跟大家說幹了什麼啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：我剛才已經說啦！就是說投保中心有…… |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
黃委員國昌：你什麼都沒有做啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：我們跟著起訴。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
黃委員國昌：對嘛！你是等到東窗事發，股票快要變壁紙才在求償，你要跟誰求償啊？你可以求償到多少錢啊？我現在問你的是2018年國發會說要處理，處理了什麼？處理到最後，起訴了、人跑了，投保中心去求償，然後你們國發會有臉跟媒體說我們比較倒楣，是誰倒楣？是國發會倒楣還是納稅人倒楣？誰倒楣？ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：報告委員，所有投資基金的話，我們要用總額來看，單一案件的話當然…… |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
黃委員國昌：我先一件一件算啦！這一個案子吸臺灣投資人的錢，洗到中國去被污走，你們到今天還不肯承認錯誤，還在說比較倒楣，這件事情有任何人被追究責任嗎？可以消極怠惰到這種程度嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：監察院已經調查過了，沒有任何個人的疏失…… |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
黃委員國昌：繼續啦！沒有任何個人的疏失？我這樣講，你講得出來我聽不下去，社會大眾聽不聽得下去，大家心裡有一把尺，如出一轍聯合再生，一模一樣…… |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：檢調…… |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
黃委員國昌：聯合再生，一模一樣。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：檢調調查跟監察院調查，這個就是一個重要的機制，我們都尊重它的調查結果。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
黃委員國昌：對嘛！那我現在再問你了嘛！你把刑事犯罪的刑事責任跟國發基金那個時候消極不作為可以混為一談喔？可以混為一談喔？這不就是當初你們決策錯誤嗎？提醒你們決策錯誤，叫你們要處理。蘇來守站在旁邊，你帶著官員說國發會一定會處理，我今天就問一個簡單的問題嘛！你處理了什麼？還有臉跟納稅人講我們倒楣，誰倒楣啊？我有說錯嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：整體的國發基金每一年事實上它的獲益是200多億…… |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
黃委員國昌：我們一件一件來看，再下一個，聯合再生如出一轍，當初新日光這3家合併，前三年虧了一百多億，那時候不是我質疑而已，民進黨的立委、民進黨自己的立委都在質疑，為什麼要投資這三家虧損這麼嚴重的公司？我們的國發基金成為紓困基金嗎？為什麼要借錢給他們？那時候國發會副主委鄭貞茂說是因為他們要轉型、因為他們要升級，然後呢？立委問他，轉型、升級完之後，認為它明年就會獲利，對於投資聯合再生這家公司，國發會今天的立場，認為當初的決策是不是正確的？ |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：報告委員，國發基金的機制是這樣，任何案子都可以報到國發基金來申請，無論是剛剛講的創新轉型基金的協助等等，我們有評估…… |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
黃委員國昌：我就直接問，聯合再生這個投資案是誰介紹的？ |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：我不知道，當時我不在國發會，也沒有人介紹吧！應該是這樣。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
黃委員國昌：結果鄭貞茂信誓旦旦的說，投資完了之後，一樣丟了將近30億進去，所謂的升級、所謂的轉型，國發基金的錢進去了、投資人跟著進去了，聯合再生從2019年開始到現在虧損了將近140億，你認不認識聯合再生的董事長？ |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：我不太認識他。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
黃委員國昌：你有沒有跟他吃過飯？ |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：我也不記得了。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
黃委員國昌：聯合再生一模一樣，審議的過程，這些委員不是請假就是代理，先射箭再畫靶，早就決定了，當初牽線的人…… |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：沒這回事啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
黃委員國昌：我就跟你講得很具體嘛！當初牽線的人叫做張景森、叫做張景森，從上而下的決定，現在你說你忘記了，我就具體地問你，誰決定投資的？一切要經過審查，然而審查委員會不是請假就是代理，聯合再生拿到我們納稅人的紓困基金繼續虧，2020年擔任蔡英文綠能後援會的總會長，我接下來就問你，2020年3月18日你與聯合再生的董事長以及張景森、潘孟安在請客樓談了什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：我根本不記得這件事情。 |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
黃委員國昌：有沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：我不知道啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
黃委員國昌：你回去查，我們下次質詢時繼續追下去。 |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：怎麼查？ |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
黃委員國昌：你查你的日曆啊！你有沒有吃過這頓飯，在國會可以回答說你不知道喔？ |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：我當然不知道啊！五年前的事，哪一天發生什麼事，你怎麼會記得？ |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
黃委員國昌：這種官商分際、這種官商分際，慷納稅人之慨，建立自己的政商關係。 |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：沒有這回事啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
黃委員國昌：這不是鐵錚錚的例子嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：這不是例子啊！檢調來查才是最真實的啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
黃委員國昌：所以在你們民進黨官員的眼裡，只要檢調沒有來查就代表沒有事喔？納稅人的錢是這樣給你們花的喔？ |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：檢調才是最客觀的，如果真的有不法的證據，我們都會配合啊！要提供任何的資料，我們都會完全配合啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
黃委員國昌：我就簡單講嘛！站在民進黨所謂的清廉、勤政、愛鄉土，你們的廉政倫理規範只有一個規則，檢調沒有查代表沒有事，是這樣嗎？是這樣嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：委員可以去檢調…… |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
黃委員國昌：對嘛！所以我就問你，你們所謂的清廉、勤政、愛鄉土，你們的廉政倫理規範只有一條，檢調沒有來查就沒有事，是這樣嗎？把標準講清楚嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：它要有客觀的證據，你現在都是推論。 |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
黃委員國昌：對啊！我現在客觀的證據不是提出來了？ |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：這些都是推論啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
黃委員國昌：這不是推論，你有去？沒有去？你告訴大家說沒有？還是告訴大家說你不記得？ |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：你這是看圖說故事嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
黃委員國昌：對嘛！你有去？沒有去？ |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：看圖說故事要成為呈證也要檢調確認才行。 |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
黃委員國昌：對嘛！你有去？沒有去？連這麼簡單的問題都不敢回答喔？ |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
主席：謝謝主委，我想大家還是要互相尊重，不要有情緒。 |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
黃委員國昌：你有去？沒有去？回答完這個問題再往下嘛！你連這個問題都不敢回答喔？拿納稅人的錢去搞政商關係。 |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：我沒有這樣做。 |
| gazette.blocks[75][0] |
黃委員國昌：虧了這麼多錢。 |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
龔主任委員明鑫：你不要亂講，我沒有這樣做！ |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
主席：時間到，謝謝。因為經濟委員會一般都會針對委員的發言請官員來回答，因為剛剛主委有講到兩個事件，本席在主席台特別提示，我們國發基金的投資不是以總額來看，這點要很注意喔！對於委員提出的每個案子都必須要詳實說明，它絕對不是以總投資額的多少去決定，這點請主委要細心回答。 |
| gazette.blocks[77][1] |
接來我們請王鴻薇委員、王鴻薇委員、王鴻薇委員不在場。 |
| gazette.blocks[77][2] |
請李柏毅委員進行詢答。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
186 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-19-2 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
邱議瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
林岱樺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
呂玉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
陳超明 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
莊瑞雄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
賴士葆 |
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鍾佳濱 |
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洪孟楷 |
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蔡易餘 |
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黃國昌 |
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李柏毅 |
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陳冠廷 |
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邱志偉 |
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王鴻薇 |
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125 |
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2024-03-06 |
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立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄 |
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邀請國家發展委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢 |
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黃國昌委員請做詢談議事主委員請協助我們再請公主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
35.743 |
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58.101 |
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黃國昌6年前我在經濟委員會開始做一個離譜到不行的弊案那個時候我一直搞不清楚我們的國發基金丟了15億給一家莫名其妙的公司叫如新我們的國發基金應該是要促進產業升級轉型結果去投了一家在做牛仔布代工廠的 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
59.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
83.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
媒體在批評我在立法院持續的追結果我搞不清楚這個輿星啊背後到底是誰當靠山讓我們的國發基金投了15億下去讓他在台灣的投資市場騙廣大的投資人把錢洗到中國裡面去胡搞瞎搞我那個時候問陳美玲 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
84.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
95.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
陳立民說投資評估過程嚴謹可遭公信請教一下今天的主委今天的國發會還會認為投資如新是過程嚴謹可遭公信嗎?對!所以這樣的一個結果你們今天看認為過程嚴謹嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
107.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
112.698 |
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檢察院有來調查當然也有給我們建議當然這個案子檢察院什麼時候調查的? |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
128.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
150.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我等到出事才調查有什麼用我2018年站在這邊我一而再再而三的告訴國發基金有問題有問題趕快處理現在站在你旁邊的這位出來手帶著人到辦公室來跟我說國發會一定會處理處理了什麼?什麼都沒有處理為什麼我敢這樣講? |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
152.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
179.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
你們說重大投資案過程嚴謹掉出會議記錄開什麼會啊不是代理就是請假典型的先設建再劃板這些人有開什麼會啊結果最後的結果是什麼決策炒算黑箱操作財報造假詐騙投資人把台灣無辜投資大眾的錢吸來了以後洗到中國去污2018年 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
182.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
186.971 |
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我一直提醒,國發會是要處理,處理了什麼?處理了什麼?所以咧?派了代表以後,然後呢?處理了什麼?請你告訴我,處理了什麼?所以你們到今天認為這是個人因素喔? |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
208.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
222.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那個財報造假什麼時候造假的你知道嗎你知道嗎國發會投的時候就是假的了不是後來才是假的欸你們怎麼評估的那個財報當時來講是有報金管會當初已經看過的 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
229.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
257.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
所以呢?所以你們看過軍管會看過大家分擔責任最後誰要負責?方信造假那是事後所以我們事後當然要有因應的措施所以嘛我就問你嘛你們那個時候採取什麼措施?我一而再再而三提醒國發會要處理處理了什麼?我今天就問這個簡單的問題處理了什麼?投保中心有提告我們也跟著對嘛那也是出事以後嘛那是2022年的事欸我拜託你啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
258.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
276.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
2018年到2022年我離開立法院以後我跟崔少仁合作我們鍥而不捨在追蹤這個案件我就問你嘛2018年提起你們這件事到後來被起訴你們國發會幹了什麼派了董事去幹了什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
279.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
290.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
你幹了什麼跟大家說啊我剛才已經說了啊就是說童寶湘信有你什麼都沒有做啊我們跟著起訴啊對嘛那你去等到什麼東窗事發股票快要變幣子才被求償 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
293.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
318.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
你要跟誰求償啊?你可以求償到多少錢啊?我現在問你的是2018年國發會說要處理,處理了什麼?處理到最後?處理到最後?請訴了?人跑了?跑投保中心去求償然後你們國發會有臉跟媒體說我們比較倒霉是誰倒霉?是國發會倒霉還是納稅人倒霉?誰倒霉? |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
324.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
345.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
報告委員,所有投資基金的話我們要用總額來看單一案件的話當然我先一件一件算啦這個案子吸台灣投資人的錢洗到中國去被汙走你們到今天還不肯承認錯誤還在說比較倒霉這件事情有任何人被追究責任嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
347.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
367.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
可以消極怠惑到這種程度嗎?檢察院已經調查過了沒有任何個人的疏失我這樣講你講得出來我聽不下去社會大眾聽不聽得下去大家心裡有一把尺如心一側聯合再生一模一樣聯合再生一模一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
378.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
403.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
你把刑事犯罪的刑事責任跟國發基金那個時候消極不作為可以火我一盤喔可以火我一盤喔這不就是當初你們決策錯誤嗎決策錯誤提醒你們叫你們要處理蘇萊索站在旁邊你帶著官員說國發會一定會處理我今天就問一個簡單的問題嘛你處理了什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
406.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
430.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
還有臉跟納稅人講我們倒霉誰倒霉啊我要說錯嗎整體的國發基金每一年事實上他的獲益是兩百多億我們一件一件來看嘛再下一個聯合再生如出一策當初新日光這三家合併前三年虧了一百多億 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
434.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
459.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那個時候不是我質疑而已喔民進黨的立委民進黨自己的立委都在質疑為什麼要投資這三家困損這麼嚴重的公司我們的國發基金成為紓困基金嗎為什麼要借錢給他們那個時候國發會的副主委鄭正茂說因為他們要轉型因為他們要升級然後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
462.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
475.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
立委問他轉型升級完了以後認為他明年就會獲利對於投資聯合再生這家公司國發會今天的立場認為當初的決策是不是正確的?我就直接問啦聯合再生這個投資案是誰介紹的? |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
492.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
518.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我不知道,我當時不在國發會也沒有人介紹吧,應該是這樣結果,在這罵信誓旦旦的說投資完了以後,一樣丟了快30億進去所謂的升級,所謂的轉型國發基金錢進去了,投資人跟著進去了聯合再生2019年開始到現在虧損了快140億 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
521.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
541.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
你認不認識聯合賽生的董事長?我不太認識他你有沒有跟他吃過飯?我也不記得聯合賽生一模一樣審議的過程這些委員不是請假就是代理先設建造化把早就決定了 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
542.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
551.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
當初牽線的人叫做張景生從上而下的決定然後你說你忘記了然後我具體的問你誰決定投資的一切經過審查結果審查委員會不是請假就是代理 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
565.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
587.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
然後聯合再生拿到了我們納粹人的紓困基金繼續虧2020年當蔡英文利門後援會的總會長我接下來就問你你2020年3月18日跟聯合再生的董事長跟張景生跟潘孟安在請客樓談了什麼根本不曉得記得這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
589.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
590.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
有沒有? |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
590.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
608.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我不知道你回去查 我的下次質詢的時候繼續摔下去你查你的歷歷啊 你有沒有吃過這頓飯你在國會可以回答說你不知道我當然不知道啊 你五年前的事情哪一天的事情發生什麼事情你怎麼會記得這種官商憤記這種官商憤記 扛納稅人之慨去建立自己的政商關係沒有這回事啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
616.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
636.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
這不是鐵砧砧的例子嗎?這不是例子啊 那就檢調來查才是最真實的啊所以嘛 在你們民進黨官員的眼裡只要檢調沒有來查就代表沒有事喔納稅人的錢是這樣給你們花的喔檢調才是最客觀 如果真的有不法證據的話 我們都會配合啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
637.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
637.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
委員可以去去這個剪掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
657.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
670.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
對嘛!所以我就問你嘛!你們所謂的青年情象愛鄉土,你們的廉政倫理規範只有一條事啊!檢調沒有來查就沒有事!是這樣嗎?把標準講清楚嘛!對啊!有些客觀的證據不是提出來了! |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
675.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
688.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這不是推論你有去沒有去然後你跟大家講說沒有還是跟大家講說你不記得對嘛你有去沒有去嘛對嘛你有去沒有去嘛連這麼簡單的問題都不敢回答喔你有去沒有去回答這個問題再往下嘛你連這個問題都不敢回答喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
703.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
704.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
好來我們時間到哈謝謝 |