| IVOD_ID |
149274 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149274 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-04 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-20-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-04T11:45:32+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-04T11:58:29+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:57 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad9f873b941d2ddd414923b6cac2fe60e0c93a942a018238f8ba9b0039caa7a6f1150b2f0eab0c655ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王世堅 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:45:32 - 11:58:29 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-04T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧率所屬機關首長暨中央存款保險股份有限公司、監管相關機構有關之財團法人、臺灣證券交易所股份有限公司、臺灣期貨交易所股份有限公司、臺灣集中保管結算所股份有限公司等董事長、總經理列席業務報告，並備質詢。
【3月4日及7日二天一次會】） |
| gazette.lineno |
690 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
王委員世堅：（11時45分）謝謝主席，我請金管會黃主委跟銀行局長、保險局長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：有請銀行局莊局長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
黃主任委員天牧：是，委員你好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
主席：還有保險局局長。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
王委員世堅：各位午安。黃主委，你學有專精，我也跟你初步談過，我先不跟你談，我倒是想先看看銀行局長、保險局長的廬山真面目。古有羅賓漢、廖添丁劫富濟貧，今有銀行局、保險局劫貧濟富，莫名其妙！銀行應該善盡保護存款戶，他們要善盡這個職責才對，結果不是！銀行局、保險局竟然任令這些銀行金控公司、保險公司他們，我不客氣講四個字，「監守自盜」！用客戶的資料、個資，搜刮這些菜籃族、上班族、小資族、媽媽班，搜刮他們辛苦的血汗錢，要他們買基金，所謂幫他們理財，基金、債券大賺手續費！我不曉得銀行局、保險局你們到底管理得怎麼樣，我待會一一跟你們講一些例子，看看你們是怎麼幹這個事情的，任令他們搜刮辛苦的小老百姓！ |
| gazette.blocks[4][1] |
這幾年來社會財富兩極化，那麼有錢的越有錢就算了，多數的市民不但因為兩極化的結果，大家的財富縮水不打緊，這幾年疫情的關係又通貨膨脹，小市民過的生活是非常地辛苦，結果你看看這些金控公司，這14家金控公司除了不長進的新光以外，另外13家賺了3,652億，3,652億哦！最多的賺六百多億，平均下來，平均大概都賺百億以上，天啊！他們大賺數百億啊！我想保險局跟銀行局你們很清楚嘛！光是這些手續費占他們的收入，去年手續費2,598億，2,600億之多，天啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[4][2] |
好，那你們管理得怎麼樣？好好地管理大家沒話講，照說銷售這些金融產品，最重要的是產品條件、風險說明，結果呢？我光舉這幾年，在你們的資料裡面，光2019到2023年，被檢舉金融商品的爭議有1,390件之多，1,390件哦！這在金融消費者保護法裡面很清楚，要充分揭露風險，那麼不充分揭露風險的話，有爭議的話，要處罰款耶！30萬以上到1,000萬耶！結果你們處得怎麼樣？兩位局長聽好哦！金融商品說明爭議這樣子經過評議以後，申訴人有理由的，被你們精挑細選篩檢之後說他有理由的也有97件，結果連1件都沒有送到金管會去裁處，這個是你們的評議委員會評議出來的，1,390件說至少這97件有重大爭議，結果連1件都沒有經過你們金管會裁處。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][3] |
那金管會裁處了什麼？有啦！你們公開的資料說銀行業金融商品說明爭議被裁罰的結果這麼多年來有3件，一年賺手續費2,600億，這3件總共罰款多少？從800萬、1,800萬到3,000萬，罰不到6,000萬，所以我覺得你們真的莫名其妙，很明顯地你們在袒護這些金控公司、這些銀行，包括袒護這些壽險公司，很清楚嘛！這就是典型的劫貧濟富！所以我想看看你們兩個的廬山真面目，沒想到你們長得是這麼斯文，所以外表往往是騙人的。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][4] |
好啦！我們再講到這些手續費，去年2,598億的手續費裡面，前5名就占了一半，前5名這5家我姑且就不把名字講出來，這些都是在金控業、銀行業裡面，也是我們消費大眾存款戶大家都覺得很有爭議的啦！怪怪的啦！覺得這幾家金控跟銀行都怪怪的！結果在你們銀行局的眼中他們是乖寶寶，天啊！這幾家，我剛剛講光手續費2,600億，結果四、五年下來你裁罰3件，裁罰加起來總計不到6,000萬，這個金額對我剛剛講的，光去年大賺3,652億的這13家金控而言，那是不痛不癢！那麼金控公司不只幹這些事耶！他們培養的一些理專、專員，當然有的也是學有專精，很認真沒有錯啦！竟然也是一群害群之馬，理專還會A錢，還會挪用資金，天啊！結果好不容易你們查到冰山的一角，查到挪用資金，A錢10億，10億哦！好不容易，也是你們三拖、四拖，三堂會審之後，欸！輕輕地就罰8,700萬，就這樣子結案。其他的理專A錢跟挪用資金，我相信還有，只是你們就是比較遲鈍，所以我搞不懂。我總結一句就是這麼多年來，金管會主導下的銀行局、保險局，你們裁罰金融業逐年減少、逐年減少，過去幾年，2019年也不過4年前，總計你們各項裁罰加起來還有3億，一直到去年只剩1億，只剩1億！我不懂為什麼，調皮搗蛋的這些金控公司跟銀行們突然之間變成乖寶寶嗎？變得那麼好嗎？我不相信，至少多數的存款戶是不相信。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][5] |
那麼我再講金融消費者保護法裡面講的，應該告知產品風險跟產品條件這個部分，只有「告」沒有「知」！我們訪問了一些菜籃族、上班族們，他們遇到共同的問題就是理專經常都是一句話，說：「主管要求例行公事，等一下我去準備資料，這個放給你看」，放那一段就叫做告知。那一段影片我普遍問起來，針對告知風險都已經要簽字了，才給他放一下這個不到1分鐘的短影片，58秒！就是我講的，只有「告」沒有「知」。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][6] |
好啦！不好意思，主席是不是再容我2分鐘講另外一個問題？還有哦！保險局不要在旁邊高興，這不是只講金控公司跟銀行而已哦！壽險業也一樣啊！壽險業每年收取我們社會大眾超過2兆以上的保險費收入，多的時候3兆，結果他們現在有這麼多的收入，他們的野心一樣還在，他們還販賣投資型保單，投資型保單也是出了一些問題，我今天因為時間關係，改天再跟你保險局談。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][7] |
我最後要談一個問題，就是你們金融罰的那些錢竟然進到哪裡？進到你們的小金庫，金融管理基金會啦！叫做金融監督基金會還是金融管理基金會，還在一個小金庫，不受國會監督，然後你們出國啦！所謂的考察啦！教育訓練啦！什麼一大堆，所以主席，我強烈建議金管會，對於這樣子的小金庫，我跟你講，任何公家的花費「必也正名乎」，要光明磊落嘛！你要出國接受再教育，你要考察，正式地編預算！不要搞一個罰金收入，把這個當成一個基金，當成你們的小金庫，這以後都會被人家講：「哦！原來罰這一些去當你們的私房錢」，這是不對的！任何一毛錢的花費該花要花，但是從國家預算下去編列，可不可以？主委，可不可以？ |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
主席：王委員…… |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，可能有些訊息我會後向您報告，那個罰款是歸國庫的，那個基金是根據組織條例，它定期每年從金融業的營業費用中、收入中去歸一定的比例。我跟您報告，絕對沒有小金庫，我們罰款其實是歸國庫的。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
王委員世堅：沒有小金庫，但是你罰款是進到那裡嘛！不是嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
黃主任委員天牧：沒有、沒有，不到那個基金帳戶裡面去。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
王委員世堅：沒有到基金帳戶？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
黃主任委員天牧：是歸國庫的。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
王委員世堅：好，那你把這一個…… |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
黃主任委員天牧：我會後再請…… |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
王委員世堅：我知道這是一個小金庫啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
主席：主委會後給王委員說明一下，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
王委員世堅：我知道這是個小金庫，好不好？會後你給我這一部分的答復。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
黃主任委員天牧：不好意思，可能我們沒有跟您報告清楚，很抱歉，我們再跟您報告，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
王委員世堅：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
主席：謝謝王世堅委員的質詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
王委員世堅：謝謝主席。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
主席：接著請李彥秀委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
322 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-20-2 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
吳秉叡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
陳玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
顏寬恒 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
王世堅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
李彥秀 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
葛如鈞 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
林楚茵 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
羅明才 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
269 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-03-04 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1130701 |
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1130701_00006 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧率所屬機關首長暨中央存款保險股份有限公司、監管相
關機構有關之財團法人、臺灣證券交易所股份有限公司、臺灣期貨交易所股份有限公司、臺灣集
中保管結算所股份有限公司等董事長、總經理列席業務報告，並備質詢 |
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黃主委你學有專精我也跟你初步談過我先不跟你談我倒是想先看看銀行局長保險局長的廬山真面目這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
27.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
38.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
股有羅賓漢、廖天丁、傑富、濟平均有銀行局、保險局、傑平、濟富莫名其妙銀行應該善盡保護存款戶他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
52.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
80.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
要善盡這個職責才對結果不是銀行局、保險局竟然任命這些銀行、金融公司、保險公司他們我不客氣講四個字堅守制度用客戶的資料各自收刮 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
83.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
111.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
這些蔡蘭族、上班族、小資族、媽媽班收掛他們辛苦的血換錢要他們買基金所謂幫他們理財基金債券大賺手續費然後我不曉得銀行局、保險局你們到底管理的怎麼樣我待會意義跟你們講一些例子 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
112.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
132.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
看看你們是怎麼幹這個事情的任命他們收刮辛苦的小老百姓這幾年來社會財富兩極化那麼有錢的越有錢就算啦多數的市民不但因為兩極化的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
134.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
155.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
財富大家縮水不打緊這幾年疫情的關係又通貨膨脹小市民過的生活是非常的辛苦結果你看看這些金控公司這14家金控公司啊除了那個不漲進的星光以外另外13家賺了3652億 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
161.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
182.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
3650億喔 最多的佔600多億平均下來平均都大概賺百億以上啦天啊 他們大賺數百億啊欸 我想保險局跟銀行局你們很清楚嘛光是這些手續費 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
185.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
194.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
他們的收入一年、去年啦!手續費2598億、2600億之多!天啊!好啦!那你們管理得怎麼樣?好好的管理大家沒話講!照說銷售這些金融產品最重要產品條件、風險說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
213.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
238.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
結果呢?結果我光舉這幾年你們的資料裡面光2019到2023年被檢舉金融商品的爭議1390件之多1390件喔那這在金融消費者保護法裡面很清楚啊要充分揭露風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
240.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
267.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那麼不充分揭露風險的話有爭議的話要處罰款30萬以上到1000萬結果你們處的怎麼樣那個兩位局長你聽好金融商品說明爭議這樣子經過評議以後山宿人有理由的有理由的站了 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
268.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
291.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
被你們精挑細選篩檢之後說他有理由的也有97件結果啊連一件連一件都沒有送到金管會去採取這個是你們的評議委員會他們評議出來的1390件說至少這97件有重大爭議結果連一件都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
300.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
320.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
經過你們金管會採取那金管會採取了什麼有啦你們公開的資料說銀行業金融商品說明爭議被裁罰的結果這麼多年來三件一年賺手續費2600億這三件總共罰款多少從800萬1800萬到3000萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
329.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
330.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
所以我想看看你們兩個如山正面目啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
359.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
383.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
沒想到你們長得是這麼斯文啦齁所以外表往往是騙人的啦外表往往是騙人的好啦我們再講到說這些手續費去年啦2598億的手續費裡面前五名就佔了一半前五名這五家我姑且就不把名字講出來啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
384.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
406 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這些都是在金控業、銀行業裡面也是我們消費大眾存款戶大家都覺得很有爭議的啦怪怪的啦覺得這幾家金控跟銀行都怪怪的結果在你們銀行局的眼中啊他們是乖寶寶天啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
410.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
415.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這幾家我剛剛講的啊光手續費2600億結果這麼多年四五年下來你財閥三屆財閥加起來總計不到6000萬這個金額啊對我剛剛講 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
437.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
457.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
去年大賺3652億的這13家金控而言那是不痛不癢不痛不癢那麼銀行不只金控公司不只幹這些事他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
459.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
483.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
培養的一些理專專員啦當然這些有的也是都學有專精很認真沒有錯啦還竟然也是一群害群之嘛理專還會A錢還會挪用資金天啊結果好不容易你們查到冰山的一角查到挪用資金A錢10億10億喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
488.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
516.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
好不容易也是你們三拖四拖三堂會審之後輕輕的就罰八千七百萬就這樣子結案其他的禮專A群跟挪用資金我相信還有還有只是你們就是比較遲鈍比較遲鈍所以我搞不懂那麼我總結一句就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
518.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
528.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這麼多年來金管會你們主導下的銀行局、保險局你們財閥金融業逐年減少逐年減少過去幾年2019年也不過4年前總計你們還財閥各項財閥加起來還有3億一直到去年只剩1億 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
543.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
561.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
只剩1億我不懂為什麼調皮搗蛋的這些金控公司跟銀行們突然之間變成乖寶寶嗎?變得那麼好嗎?我不相信至少多數的存款公司不相信那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
562.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
581.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我在講金融消費者保護法裡面講的應該告知產品風險跟產品條件這個部分只有告沒有知我們訪問了一些蔡蘭族上班族們他們遇到的共同的問題就是說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
585.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
610.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
都是啊 理專經常都是一句話就是說 主管要求例行公事 例行公事等一下我去準備資料 這個放給你看 放那一段就叫做告知那一段影片我普遍問起來 這個針對告知風險都已經要簽字了才給他放一下這個大概不到一分鐘的一個短影片 58秒 58秒 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
613.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
633.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
就我講的只有告沒有知好啦不好意思主席是不是在讓我講我講另外一個問題齁那還有喔保險局不要在旁邊高興這不是只講金控公司跟銀行而已喔受險業一樣啊受險業每年收取我們社會大眾超過 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
636.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
646.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
多的時候3兆都超過2兆以上的保險費收入了結果他們現在這麼多的收入還 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
647.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
669.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
他們野心還是一樣還在他們還販賣投資型保單投資型保單這些也是出了一些問題我今天時間關係改天再跟你保險局談我最後要談一個問題就是說你們金融啊你們罰的那些錢啊竟然進到哪裡進到你們的小金庫金融管理基金會啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
674.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
695.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
叫做金融監督機、金融管理機還在一個小金庫不受國會監督然後你們出國啦所謂的考察啦教育訓練啦什麼一大堆所以主席我強烈建立金管會這樣子的小金庫我跟你講任何公家的花費必也正名乎 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
696.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
717.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我們光明磊落嘛你要出國接受再教育你要考察正式的編預算不要搞一個罰金收入把這個當成一個基金當成你們的小金庫最後都會被人家講人家罰這一些啊這個罰去當你們的私房錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
718.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
746.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這是不對的任何一毛錢的花費該花要花但是從國家預算下去編列可不可以局長可不可以那個那個主委報告報告委員可能有些訊息我會後跟您報告那個罰款是歸國庫的沒有那個基金是根據組織條例他定期每年從金融業的營業營業的費用中收入中歸一定的比例我跟您報告絕對沒有小金庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
748.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
767.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
其實是歸國庫的。但是你罰款是進到那裡嗎?不是嗎?沒有沒有,不到那個基金帳戶裡面去。沒有到基金帳戶。是歸國庫的。好,那你把這個帳戶,我知道這個是一個小金庫了。我知道這個是一個小金庫了。不好意思,可能我沒有給您報告清楚,很抱歉。我們再給您報告,謝謝。謝謝王世堅委員的質詢。謝謝主席。接著我們請李彥秀委員質詢。 |