| IVOD_ID |
149229 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149229 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-04 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-20-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-04T10:23:31+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-04T10:34:59+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:28 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad9f873b941d2ddd86fdb275391ddc7be0c93a942a018238f8ba9b0039caa7a6ab4cf1424603640c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王鴻薇 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:23:31 - 10:34:59 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-04T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧率所屬機關首長暨中央存款保險股份有限公司、監管相關機構有關之財團法人、臺灣證券交易所股份有限公司、臺灣期貨交易所股份有限公司、臺灣集中保管結算所股份有限公司等董事長、總經理列席業務報告，並備質詢。
【3月4日及7日二天一次會】） |
| gazette.lineno |
376 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
王委員鴻薇：（10時23分）主席，我請金管會主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：有請黃天牧主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
黃主任委員天牧：委員早。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
王委員鴻薇：我也請檢查局局長一起上來。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
主席：請檢查局張局長。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
王委員鴻薇：主委、局長，去年我揭發踢爆合庫投信違反公司治理，也就是包含董事長還有當時的行銷長，還有另外1位，他們違反相關規定，接受海外基金公司的招待到東京，10天之後就跟這家公司，也就是BNY Mellon簽約。在去年踢爆之後，我要求金管會必須要做金融檢查，因為他們內部其實多次跟合庫金控的總公司及金管會投訴，但一直都沒有處理，所以我想請教主委，我知道你們已經去做過金檢，金檢的結果是怎樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
黃主任委員天牧：關於檢查的結果，我們在12月中對於合庫金控在稽核投信的一些作法，以及合庫投信作法都有檢查，檢查的結果是，基本上那3位出國的人應該都不符原來基金公司契約規定出國人員的資格。另外，合庫投信、合庫金控部分，可能在稽核上也有……受檢舉之後去稽核，其實整個稽核出來的結果，兩次的人力都是相同的，我們有提出檢查的意見。至於合庫投信派不符合契約規定條件的人去參訪，還有這些相關的缺失，我們請他內部自行要議處相關失職人員。此外再提出整個的改善計畫，我們是2月7號發函的，在3個月之內提報董事會之後報金管會。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
王委員鴻薇：好，關於這個案子，合庫投信確實有違反相關的規定，而且合庫金控的檢查也有瑕疵，也有不周全的地方，才在金管會再度的檢查之後發現他們裡面確實有缺失。第一個，你要求合庫投信要處理，甚至要議處；第二個，合庫金控總公司的稽核，他們自己也要檢討，你剛才說要讓他們幾月提出相關的結論、報告？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
黃主任委員天牧：我們是2月7號，過年前1天發函的，3個月之內，他們內部檢討改善、制度改善報董事會之後，3個月之內要報回金管會，等於說是5月7號之前要報回金管會。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
王委員鴻薇：好，所以這件事情跟我更早之前一樣，踢爆合庫金控下的合庫AMC人謀不臧，任用私人，董事長任用他的外甥、他的小三、他的樁腳，包含他事業夥伴的子女，通通放到合庫AMC，當然去年合庫AMC也做了議處，讓這幾個人通通滾蛋。這二個連續的事情嚴重暴露我們現在的公股事業、公股銀行裡面其實有嚴重的公司治理問題，你同不同意？在1年內，合庫這麼大一家公股金控公司，二個子公司都出現了這個問題，這有沒有違反相關的公司治理問題？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
黃主任委員天牧：我們認為金控對子公司的管理部分應該是有問題的。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
王委員鴻薇：當然有問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
黃主任委員天牧：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
王委員鴻薇：只是合庫金控有這麼大的問題，照樣升官的升官，這都是很大的問題，雖然這可能不是金管會的職權，但是我會來推動。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][1] |
為了避免公股金控公司下面子公司的人事會不會有任用私人、去藏私人，包含自己銀行高層隨便任用，甚至我直接說，其他的行政官員，包含我們院內有沒有立法委員的子女也塞進這些公司裡面，寄生公股金控公司。我告訴大家，這個是我為什麼進入財政委員會的原因。我會特別、特別去把這些抓出來，因為我們有會議紀錄，所以我在這邊說我會推動一件事情──針對現在金控公司裡面的銀行，過去因為它有公開招考制度，所以有一定的標準，它公開招考，至少要透明公開，但它裡面有沒有問題？還是有問題啦！至少它公開招考。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][2] |
但到了子公司就沒有了，所以裡面就容易有這些，我直接說：藏污納垢的現象。我認為既然銀行有招考，子公司也應該比照公開招考、公開透明。第一個，素質可以提升；第二個，不會有這種私人人事的任用，主委同不同意？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，這是公股的人資問題…… |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
王委員鴻薇：你是金融監理單位，一大堆這種事情…… |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
黃主任委員天牧：當然希望是進用的人適才適所…… |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
王委員鴻薇：本來就是要啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
黃主任委員天牧：而不是透過裙帶關係進來，大家當然都應該有這個共識。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
王委員鴻薇：沒錯。時間暫停一下，財團法人金融聯合徵信中心董事長有在現場嗎？請問董事長，你當時說要去聯合徵信中心抓中資，你抓了幾件中資？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
郭董事長建中：報告委員，我沒有說這種話，而且我也不知道這話從哪邊來的！我從來沒有講過這種話！ |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
王委員鴻薇：所以你有沒有抓到什麼中資？好，OK。主委，現在金控除了有我剛才講的任用私人之外，還有一個很大的問題，就是年齡上都超齡了！過去總經理65歲，董事長68歲，現在完全沒有人在遵守！然後70歲也照樣任用，完全破壞規矩！另外，金管會下面有幾個單位來拜訪我，特別講資歷怎樣怎樣，還特別跟我講，在這家公司是從基層做起。我說很好，至少你是有專業的，你也不是政治任命或政治酬庸。今天很不好意思，董事長在現場。董事長在1月份繼續擔任董事長，但你的年齡已經超過65歲，我今天讓你一個人站這邊其實對你有點不好意思。但在公股金控、什麼子公司、銀行，像你這樣狀況的比比皆是，一「拖拉庫」，怎麼金融改革改革成這樣子？我認為金融就應該專業化，所以我不客氣說，董事長，我今天我為什麼請你過來？因為你在這之前都在總統府秘書長林佳龍的臺灣智庫擔任執行長，而且你過去主要是大陸研究所教授。主委，你下面所屬可能的問題我會繼續檢查，看起來大部分都還有專業性，問題沒那麼大。但現在金控就是亂七八糟，搞到年輕人通通都要離開金控公司了，沒有這種道理！同樣的，我會用這樣方式去責成財政部，檢討金控公司這些高層人士的任用問題，不要破壞規矩，而且是一再破壞！上面高層人士這樣任用，甚至政治酬庸，所以下面的也一樣任用私人，我剛剛講了好幾個例子，一個合庫一年被我抓出兩起，不嚴重嗎？非常嚴重！合庫難道不是重要的公股金控公司嗎？同樣的，我也希望金管會轄下的金融機構、相關機關能本於專業、透明、公開且符合相關制度，可不可以？ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
黃主任委員天牧：是，我們會朝委員指示的方向去努力，可否讓我講一、兩句話，也許和委員講的不完全一致？我可不可以跟您報告？因為您請郭董事長上來，我必須跟您報告，如果有冒犯您的話，再請您指導。他雖然年紀超過，可是他跟我一起同時擔任，他在永續金融與金融科技方面積極任事，在任期內做了很多、很多事，所以我們是基於他的專業與過去績效前提下同意他續任。這點也許跟您的想法不一樣，但您請他上來，我還是要替他講幾句話。不好意思，向您報告。謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
王委員鴻薇：我已經超時了，召委都站起來了。你的說法我會聽，但我的原則還是希望你們能遵循，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
黃主任委員天牧：謝謝委員指導。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
主席：謝謝王鴻薇委員的質詢。接著請陳玉珍委員。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
322 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-20-2 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
吳秉叡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
陳玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
顏寬恒 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
王世堅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
李彥秀 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
葛如鈞 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
林楚茵 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
羅明才 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
269 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-03-04 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1130701 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1130701_00006 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧率所屬機關首長暨中央存款保險股份有限公司、監管相
關機構有關之財團法人、臺灣證券交易所股份有限公司、臺灣期貨交易所股份有限公司、臺灣集
中保管結算所股份有限公司等董事長、總經理列席業務報告，並備質詢 |
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1130701_00005 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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1.122 |
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在去年我揭發踢爆 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
24.437 |
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合庫投信他們有違反公司治理也就是包含董事長還有當時的行銷長還有另外一位他們有違反相關規定接受海外基金公司的招待到東京然後在10天之後就跟這家公司也就是NY Melon簽約 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
54.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
81.041 |
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那這個在去年踢爆之後我要求金管會必須要做金融檢查因為這個他們內部其實多次的包含跟合庫金控的總公司包含跟金管會來投訴但是一直都沒有處理所以我想請教主委這個你們因為我知道你們已經去做過經檢經檢的結果是怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
84.711 |
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105.62 |
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檢查的結果我們對於核庫監控他在集合這個投信的一些做法以及核庫投信做法都有做檢查在12月中那檢查的結果是原則上那三位出國的人基本上應該都不符原來這個基金那個基金公司企業規定出國的人員的資格 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
108.042 |
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121.881 |
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核酷監控部分可能在集合上面也有就是受檢舉之後去集合其實它的整個集合出來的結果兩次的人力都是相同的我們也提出檢查的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
122.842 |
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138.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那至於說合股投信派不符那個契約規定條件的人去去去參訪我們還有這些相關的缺失我們請他內部自行要議署相關實質人員那另外提出整個的改善計劃我們是2月7號發發函的在3個月之內提報董事會之後報經管會好 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
145.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
154.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
所以這個案子確實核庫投信他們確實有違反相關的規定而且核庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
155.646 |
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183.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
金控的檢查也有瑕疵有不周全的地方所以才在我們金管會再度的去檢查之後發現它裡面確實有缺失那所以你第一個你要求合庫投信要做處理甚至要溢儲那第二個合庫金控總公司的集合他們自己也要有檢討那你剛才說你要讓他們幾月提出相關的結論 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
185.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
187.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
所以這件事情跟我更早之前一樣的去踢爆何苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
205.689 |
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226.111 |
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合股投信合股金控下面的合股AMC人模不章就是任用私人董事長任用包含他的外甥還有包含他的小三還有包含他的調阿咖還有任用包含他的這個事業夥伴的 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
227.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
250.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
子女通通放到合庫AMC去那當然在去年合庫AMC也做了一處這幾個人通通滾蛋這連續兩個事情嚴重暴露我們現在的公股事業公股銀行裡面其實他有嚴重的公司治理的問題你同不同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
252.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
276.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
在一年內合庫這麼大的一家公股、金控公司兩個子公司都出現了這個問題這有沒有違反相關的公司治理問題?我們認為金控對子公司的管理部分應該是有問題的當然有問題那只是呢我們的這個合庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
278.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
307.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
金融有這麼大問題照樣升官的升官這個都是很大的問題所以我在這邊雖然這個可能不是我們金管會的一個職權但是呢我會來做推動為了避免我們這些公庫金融公司下面的子公司這些人士裡面會不會有任用私人去藏私人包含自己銀行高層隨便任用 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
308.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
316.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
甚至我直接說其他的行政官員甚至包含我們院內有沒有立法委員的子女也塞進這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
319.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
338.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
公司裡面寄生公股機構公司那我告訴大家這個是我為什麼進入財政委員會我會特別特別的去把這些抓出來所以我在這邊因為我們有會議記錄我會推動一件事情就是我們現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
340.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
353.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
金控公司裡面的銀行它是過去因為它有制度是公開招考所以它有一定的標準它公開招考至少它要透明公開但它裡面有沒有問題還是有問題啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
355.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
384.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
但是至少他公開招考但是到了子公司的部分就沒有了所以裡面就容易有這些我直接說藏污納垢的現象所以我認為竟然我們銀行有招考子公司也應該比照做公開招考公開透明第一個你數字可以提升第二個你不會有這種私人人士的任用主委你同不同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
386.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
389.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
財團法人金融聯合增信中心董事長有在現場嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
417.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
444.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
董事長請問你當時說要去聯合徵信中心你說你要抓中資你抓了幾件中資啊?包括我沒有說這種話而且我也不知道這個話從哪邊來的我從來沒有講過這種話所以你有沒有抓到什麼中資嗎?好OK來那個主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
447.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
468.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我們現在精通除了我剛才講說有這種任用私人之外還有一個很大的問題就是年齡都根本超齡了過去總經理65、董事長68現在完全沒有人在遵守然後一樣70歲也照樣任用完全破壞規矩另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
471.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
490.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
在我們整個的金管會下面你們有幾個單位來拜訪我特別講他的資歷怎樣怎樣特別跟我講說我就是這家公司我是從基層做起我說很好至少你是有專業的你也不是呢是政治任命或者政治酬庸 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
491.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
517.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
今天很不好意思董事長在現場董事長1月份繼續擔任董事長但是你的年齡事實上已經超過65歲我今天讓你一個人站這邊其實對你有一點不好意思因為在我們的公股、金控什麼子公司、銀行像你這樣狀況比比皆是一拖拉顧啊我們怎麼金融改革改革成這個樣子呢對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
521.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
544.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
而且我也認為金融就應該專業化我不客氣說董事長我今天為什麼請你過來因為你過去你長期你在這個之前你都是在我們現在林佳龍是總統府秘書長嘛都在他臺灣智庫的執行長嘛而且你主要的是過去是大陸研究所教授所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
547.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
559.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
現在主委啊你下面的可能問題我都有會繼續檢查還沒有那麼大我看起來大部分呢都還是有他的專業性 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
561.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
581.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
但是我們的現在金控就是亂七八糟完全沒有過去所以搞到年輕人通通都要離開我們的金控公司沒有這種道理所以同樣的我會用這樣方式去責成財政部檢討他金控公司這些高層人士的任用 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
582.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
598.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
不要這樣的破壞規矩一再的破壞上面高層人士任用甚至政治仇傭下面呢大家也一樣任用私人我剛講了好幾個例子一個何苦一年被我抓出兩起不嚴重嗎?非常嚴重欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
599.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
620.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
何故難道不是很重要的重要的一個公股、金控公司嗎?所以同樣的,我也希望金管會下面、轄下的這些金融機構、相關機構,你們也等於專業、透明、公開,而且要符合相關的制度,可不可以? |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
621.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
641.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
是,我們會朝委員指示的方向去努力我這邊可不可以我講一兩句話但是跟委員講的也許不完全一致可不可以我可以跟您報告因為您請郭董事長上來我必須要跟您報告如果有冒犯您,您再指導他雖然年紀超過可是他在他任期 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
642.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
663.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我跟我一起同時擔任他在永續金融跟金融科技方面真的是積極認識做了很多很多事所以我們是在他的專業跟過去績效的前提之下才同意他續任的我這點也許跟您的想法不一樣我還是要再因為您請他上來我還是要替他講幾句話不好意思跟您報告謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
665.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
681.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
因為我已經超時了你看我們的召委都已經站起來了你的說法我會聽但是我的這個原則還是希望能夠你們能夠遵循謝謝謝謝委員知道謝謝王宏偉委員的質詢接著我們請陳玉珍委員 |