| IVOD_ID |
149142 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149142 |
| 日期 |
2024-02-23 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-1-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期第2次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院第11屆第1會期第2次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-02-23T17:08:44+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-02-23T17:24:47+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:16:03 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/61d28f3f53a2feb6fc45cd9bf39baab9b347916f9bc661eaf8ba9b0039caa7a647d3cba7da10d7445ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
羅智強 |
| 委員發言時間 |
17:08:44 - 17:24:47 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-02-23T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第1會期第2次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。
二、2月23日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。
三、2月27日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。） |
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陳建仁院長陳院長 |
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今天這份報告的主題是民進黨執政8年的食安問題總檢討我看完11頁的報告做一點小小的總結你看認不認同大概意思是說民進黨政府已經改善食安食安的個案偶爾發生但系統性食安問題顯著減少這樣的認知有沒有問題沒有錯確實是這個主軸 |
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44.326 |
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44.806 |
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首先我想問的第一個問題是 |
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院長這份報告是八年食安總檢討那你可不可以給大家一個評價你會給你自己給民進黨政府這八年你評價會打幾分臺灣的食安問題呢從這個2016年開始因為在2016年以前有很多的這個系統性的事件那我們就開始了食安五環在中央跟地方的努力之下我覺得有進步相對於2016年以前有大幅度的進步 |
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90.25 |
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115.02 |
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就是比2016年之前有大幅度進步這是您的結論那我想請教您第二個問題既然大幅度進步只有偶爾的單一食安個案發生那我想請教您知道二十一世紀兩千年之後二十三年內哪一年的食物中毒人數最多這個我沒有辦法再我告訴你2019年 |
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117.671 |
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118.634 |
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實務重圖的人數全國有6935人你知道是誰執政嗎? |
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125.473 |
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149.522 |
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我委員抱歉,食物中毒的原因有很多,但說食安沒有關係,如果食物中毒都跟食安沒有關係,那社會公平嗎?謝謝你老,謝謝你承認食安有關係,那你還說你們做得很好。因為食物中毒2019年就民進黨執政,食物中毒人數是歷史的新高,2000年以後。那我就要問您, |
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151.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
180.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
委員這個數字我要再查一下沒關係你可以去查中華民國統計資訊網如果你不相信這個單位的話把它廢掉也可以那接下來我想請教你第三個問題你一直強調蔡政府的食安五環全面加強食安管理我剛剛只講一個年也不公平嘛對不對也許那一年特殊事件也特別高但也許蔡英文八年其實還是比較少啊有沒有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
182.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
189.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我覺得用食品中毒人數來反映食安不是正確的數字本來就不是嘛這個食品中毒的人數 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
205.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
234.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
施品中毒的狀況報告施品中毒重不重要吃下去中毒欸你今天西部特羅我們是講致癌可能性吃下去是中毒欸舉親民眾你總懂吧你現在西部特羅這個案子以0.002篇我問你下一個數字好不好下一個數字把政府實習施品中毒的人數多還是蔡政府我告訴你你答不出來我可以理解 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
236.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
244.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
從2008到2015年馬英九政府平均是5074位。蔡英文2016到2022平均是5469位。數學總統吧院長哪一個數字高? |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
252.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
273.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我剛才就跟你講過沒關係啦我直接告訴你蔡英文的數字就是高啦你如果還要再針對食品中毒的有什麼見解的話我跟你講你在施政報告在你的專案報告都可以講那我就要問各位食品中毒跟致癌物質都是食安問題啊不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
275.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
282.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我問你第四個問題食品中毒人數少的馬政府食安事件叫系統性你食品中毒人數多的蔡政府食安問題叫個案性 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
304.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
315.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我問你第五個問題我問你第五個問題我問你第五個問題我問你第五個問題請問蔡政府加強稽查檢驗部分大幅提高食品的抽驗件數這是你報告裡面強調的嘛 對不對那我想請問你食品查驗件數馬政府時候多還是蔡政府時候多 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
334.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
340.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我告訴你馬政府2008到2015年平均每年723782件蔡英文政府2016年到2022年平均每年511333件72萬跟51萬誰多 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
357.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
379.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
你現在用的激素不一樣而且呢這個食品安全我不是講total欸食品安全的東西好啦你要繼續跟我講食品中毒不重要我也沒關係啦我接受啦我想請教院長齁食品衛生查驗的不合格率齁逐年下降嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
381.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
403.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
你們任內也在下降,下降多少?八年任內你知道下降多少嗎?我肯定你啦,下降啦,對不對?我肯定啊。我肯定,不要擔心嘛,我肯定你合格率下降。下降了0.68啦,但是下降0.68的低數值,前朝下降1.13,也有功勞吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
404.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
420.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我想齁,你現在舉的這個數字都不是... 院長,你是科學家,給點公道的評價也不會傷你的這個高度啦。沒關係,我都要評價,因為你要...你要去講馬聖保障你要評價他,給他公道一點難啦,沒關係。 2019年4、2、2000年以後,食品中毒人數最多是民進黨執政。 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
429.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
444.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
馬政府平均每年食品中毒人數比蔡英文政府要少馬政府每年平均查驗食品安全件數是70多萬件比民進黨的50幾萬件高你現在跟我講 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
445.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
453.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
你不給馬英九政府一點公道的評價,你要說這個政府做的比你爛。沒關係,我問你下一個問題。您的報告當中說馬英九政府有7次系統性事案的問題,對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
463.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
466.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我剛剛的問題是什麼?我剛剛的問題是你的報告裡面說嘛政府系統性食安問題有幾件?幾件啊?一幾件?兩件啊?來 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
487.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
505.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
2016.2016年6月販賣機奶茶生菌素超標是系統性還是個案?個案啦我知道你啦也沒放在系統性嘛2016年9月調和酒冒充釀製酒是系統還是個案?個案啦你沒有放在你的報告啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
506.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
515.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
2016 2016年包括過期的原料製成醬料是系統還是個案?個案啦你沒有放在你的報告啦2016年過期冷凍沒產品是系統還是個案?個案啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
522.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
541.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
因為你對食品安全的系統性問題你不懂啊。系統跟個案都有你定義啦,你科學家嘛。沒有沒有沒有,這食品安全的系統性,這是有一定的規則,是從上、中、下由政府講的。所有的都認為是個案,系統性就是零啦。沒關係,你要再繼續講齁,來。你這樣子是故意的去 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
547.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
550.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我想請問院長,國內的豬農根據動物藥品管理法,我們的西部特羅檢出的標準是什麼?西部特羅零檢出啊。非常好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
571.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
578.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
今天一整天我看你跟徐曉新很熱鬧的交鋒你夜秀很熱鬧的交鋒重點都是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
580.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
595.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
你就認為台中市政府查出了今天非零檢出的西部特羅不該那麼快公佈嗎?因為不科學嘛!你講的嘛!我很認真聽喔!一整個檢體喔!檢驗出來的結果會相重複啦!重複講這些大家都聽到了! |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
603.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
604.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
西伯特就是檢出啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
619.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
622.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
施安法第5條第一項各主管機關依科學實證建立食品衛生安全監測體系,監測發現有危害食品衛生安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
640.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
662.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
之餘的事件發生時應主動查驗並發布預警或採行必要管理措施。前項主動查驗、發布預警或採行必要管理措施包含主管機關應抽樣檢驗、追查來源、產品流向、公佈檢驗結果跟揭露資訊並令食品業者自主檢驗。 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
664.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
675.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
請問食安法第五條有哪一個跟你講說因為驗出來的數值比較低有哪一個一法選在檢驗是否正確一法行政院長來來來倒車一下倒車一下不要擔心啦你科學家 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
686.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
702.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我沒有否定你的科學論據喔好沒有錯那我問你我跟你談一談法律問題院長我跟你講這個法規裡面是不是要正確的檢查才能夠公布院長你說不是的話那我就沒話講了沒關係檢查不正確也要公布正確的檢查才能公布你寫進條文啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
703.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
710.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
今天數值偏低你跟我講你剛剛今天一整天都在講這個數值偏低檢驗22次有誤差你要去檢驗別的東西你才可以公佈這不是你今天論點嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
721.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
748.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
今天是我們專案的報告再一次第三次呼籲拜託委員跟官員之間能夠互相尊重那共同遵守相關質詢規定時間繼續委員我只是想跟你講當一個實驗室你的法規裡面要公布很重要的一件事情你就是說你尊重我科學嘛那我對說科學的情況就是你檢驗出來是正確的數字才能公布今天那些論點你已經講了15遍了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
750.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
753.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
院長,我們韓院長講完話我就很尊重你啊,但是你讓我問問題嘛,只剩2分鐘了好不好?好,你說 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
771.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
800.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
如果你的所有的科學主張要建一你今天如果檢驗數值即便是有檢出法律規定0檢出你仍然有檢出但有檢出的數值太低你不可以立刻公佈寫在食安法第五條可不可以那個檢出是要正確的檢出你的正確你的食安法一段還沒開你現在都講他不正確我只問食藥署有沒有去檢驗我的意思是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
801.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
827.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
院長,食藥署有沒有去檢驗?食藥署有沒有檢驗嗎?告訴我嘛。我們查了同批的結果都沒有檢驗。第二個,你如果真的認為數值太低,就不能立刻公佈寫到法律裡面嘛。公務員依法行政你沒有明確性的法律指導,你想要怎麼做?我沒有否定你的科學觀喔。我講的是依法行政喔。第二個, |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
828.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
854.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
你要跟我講說,你檢驗一包不夠,你要平行再去檢驗其他包,這不能提的論點。法律有寫嗎?實案法第五條,講給我聽哪邊講的?你確認你的檢驗是正確。怎麼叫確認,你把法律條文寫清楚,確認兩字。確認就是真叫台中市前線機關,你要自己去負責裁量啊。可是你以前授請書規定就是零檢出啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
855.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
860.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
規定理解說怎麼辦呢來沒關係啦我也沒時間了啦我最後講一個結論啦我聽你認不認同啦來我講一個結論你聽一下啦齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
867.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
891.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
中央地方同時復檢就看結果是否一致。如果不一致就找出原因為何同樣的樣本有不同檢測結果。如果台中食安處跟食藥署復檢結果都是陽性這就排除實驗室問題去進一步溯源。包括檢驗樣本從哪裡來重新檢查飼養過程屠宰與污染問題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
894.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
906.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
這個結論你認不認同啊?我想這個實驗室的問題有兩個component一個是實驗室本身的標準作業流程第二個我只問你認不認同嘛yes no嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
908.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
933.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
這是薛瑞元講的,拜託你,薛瑞元講的排除實驗室問題,因為你偉大的試驗室,最科學的試驗室也驗出來了實驗方法。第二個就是這個操作的過程,謝謝你。 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
934.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
962.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
謝謝羅委員智強的質詢。也非常感謝我們陳院長特別跟院會報告今天排定的質詢的委員均與質詢完畢。再次感謝陳院長及政府院長及相關部會首長的列席答詢。也特別感謝衛福部的薛部長今天報病來院裡。非常感謝。那要做以下的決定。一、將各委員發言紀錄及書面質詢含送行動。 |