| IVOD_ID |
149134 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149134 |
| 日期 |
2024-02-23 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-1-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期第2次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院第11屆第1會期第2次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-02-23T14:47:19+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-02-23T15:03:46+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:16:27 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/61d28f3f53a2feb605e7da52cabd2b86b347916f9bc661eaf8ba9b0039caa7a61cd3ba218c78baf75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
徐巧芯 |
| 委員發言時間 |
14:47:19 - 15:03:46 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-02-23T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第1會期第2次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。
二、2月23日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。
三、2月27日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。） |
| gazette.lineno |
59 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
徐委員巧芯：（14時47分）院長，請。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：我來。麻煩請陳院長備詢，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
徐委員巧芯：不好意思，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
陳院長建仁：徐委員，恭喜你榮任立委。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
徐委員巧芯：院長，你在過年的時候有告訴大家你過去1年做錯很多事…… |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
陳院長建仁：確實。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
徐委員巧芯：我現在就要來問問看，到底知不知道自己做錯什麼？反省了沒有？首先，我們農業部去告民眾，說他們綠雞蛋是假消息，你還跳出來說這是一則假消息，結果被法院打臉了，你有錯嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
陳院長建仁：法院的…… |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
徐委員巧芯：法院不對？你說法院不對。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
陳院長建仁：法院的判斷，你自己看看內容…… |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
徐委員巧芯：法院不對，好，沒有承認。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
陳院長建仁：委員，你看看法院的內容、宣判的內容…… |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
徐委員巧芯：NCC裁罰10個案子都被行政法院打臉…… |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
陳院長建仁：你講的不是這樣喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
徐委員巧芯：有錯嗎？不是假消息喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
陳院長建仁：你看看法院宣判的內容…… |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
徐委員巧芯：法院已經認證囉！法院已經認證了。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
陳院長建仁：它是說它沒有辦法查證…… |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
徐委員巧芯：欸！你不認為有錯！ |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
陳院長建仁：你那個不要扭曲…… |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
徐委員巧芯：所以行政院去告民眾…… |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
陳院長建仁：不要扭曲法院的判斷。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
徐委員巧芯：被法院打臉了…… |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
陳院長建仁：不要扭曲法院的判斷。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
徐委員巧芯：不認為有錯？我們都知道了，NCC裁罰10個案子都被行政法院打臉，你們有錯嗎？回答，有錯嗎？NCC被行政法院打臉10個案子了，回答不出來？好。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][1] |
臺灣的詐騙訊息96%的民眾都收到過，去年被詐騙79億，政府有錯嗎？院長。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
陳院長建仁：詐騙79億，可是委員我剛才…… |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
徐委員巧芯：有或沒有？這麼簡單的問題嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
陳院長建仁：我昨天報告的時候你沒有注意聽。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
徐委員巧芯：有或沒有？我是問你覺得有沒有錯？以後我會慢慢問你要怎麼解決，你有沒有錯？政府有沒有錯？ |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
陳院長建仁：我們打詐1.5實施以後…… |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
徐委員巧芯：有或沒有？回答不出來。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
陳院長建仁：實際上查到的打詐、阻擋的也都增加了…… |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
徐委員巧芯：國防部發簡訊，衛星說成是飛彈…… |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
陳院長建仁：也都減少了民眾的損失。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
徐委員巧芯：你在立法院說臺灣被飛彈攻擊了，你有沒有錯啊？ |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
陳院長建仁：喔，那一件事情是我在情蒐……那我承認錯，那一件事情我承認。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
徐委員巧芯：承認錯，一件。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
陳院長建仁：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
徐委員巧芯：海巡署公然說謊，翻覆的時候說人家蛇行不慎翻覆，結果根本是碰撞之後導致翻覆，你剛剛還說以訛傳訛，有沒有錯？ |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
陳院長建仁：委員，這一個你要有證據喔！這個昨天在我們檢察官講的…… |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
徐委員巧芯：新聞媒體以及我今天記者會有提出證據…… |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
陳院長建仁：它沒有證實，沒有證實是碰撞翻覆…… |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
徐委員巧芯：但你自己不認真…… |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
陳院長建仁：你這個要負責任…… |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
徐委員巧芯：沒有看過海巡署的報告…… |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
陳院長建仁：你要有負責任的講法。 |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
徐委員巧芯：我有看過海巡署的報告。 |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
陳院長建仁：這個要負責任喔！這是你講的喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
徐委員巧芯：我講的啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
陳院長建仁：碰撞翻覆是你講的喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
徐委員巧芯：我記者會公開講的…… |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
陳院長建仁：但是檢察官沒有這樣說…… |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
徐委員巧芯：你們第一時間海巡署的報告說…… |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
陳院長建仁：是你自己的心證喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
徐委員巧芯：我方碰撞對方導致翻覆，文件我都有，我會送到金門地檢署去。 |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
陳院長建仁：好。這是誰講的？ |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
徐委員巧芯：今天是食安報告，臺灣豬肉驗出有西布特羅…… |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
陳院長建仁：這個要司法調查，一定要按照司法的查證，相信司法吧！ |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
徐委員巧芯：食安報告，政府有錯嗎？政府整個過程當中有錯嗎？你也覺得沒有錯，百分之百知道的喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
陳院長建仁：相信司法。 |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
徐委員巧芯：院長，你剛在備詢的時候說要給台糖申覆期，要晚15天公布，我問喔，這個案子如果晚15天公布，除了讓國人晚15天知道事實真相以外，會不會驗出西布特羅？我只談這個案子。 |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
陳院長建仁：好，這個案子我可以跟你講，如果檢查出來…… |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
徐委員巧芯：會或不會嘛？我只有15分鐘的時間而已，為什麼要浪費呢？中央有沒有驗出西布特羅？這個案子晚15天公布會不會驗出西布特羅？ |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
陳院長建仁：那一塊肉有，其他沒有，而且按照標準作業流程，當檢查出來有西布特羅的時候…… |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
徐委員巧芯：我剛剛都聽過了，你就是這樣浪費我們國民黨委員的時間…… |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
陳院長建仁：應該在15天內讓台糖申覆、複驗，但是他們沒有照標準作業流程來做…… |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
徐委員巧芯：就告訴你會驗出來，因為你們中央就驗出來西布特羅，請問中央有沒有驗出西布特羅啊？ |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
陳院長建仁：而且它驗出來的量是0.002 ppm，是相當的低、極度的低…… |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
徐委員巧芯：請問中央有沒有驗出？不用告訴我幾ppm，有或沒有？答案很清楚。 |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
陳院長建仁：那一塊肉有。 |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
徐委員巧芯：就是有，你們自己公布的就是有驗出來。 |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
陳院長建仁：那一塊肉才有，其他沒有。 |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
徐委員巧芯：有驗出來嘛！我管你哪一塊肉。 |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
陳院長建仁：那一塊肉才有驗出來。 |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
徐委員巧芯：有一塊肉驗出來，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[75][0] |
陳院長建仁：那個實驗室的肉驗出來，所以委員…… |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
徐委員巧芯：你剛剛說臺中的實驗室污染…… |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
陳院長建仁：你以偏概全。 |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
徐委員巧芯：你說臺中的實驗室污染是刪去法，你是在參加百萬小學堂嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[79][0] |
陳院長建仁：這是科學的推理啊！邏輯啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[80][0] |
徐委員巧芯：你要不要call out求救一下、call out求救一下…… |
| gazette.blocks[81][0] |
陳院長建仁：那這個邏輯也沒有按照科學證據，那我們談什麼？談憑你個人的想法，這才奇怪了嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[82][0] |
徐委員巧芯：好，所以你剛剛說，你認為臺中實驗室是污染了，除了刪去法以外有沒有其他的驗證方式？ |
| gazette.blocks[83][0] |
陳院長建仁：當然有，但是現在…… |
| gazette.blocks[84][0] |
徐委員巧芯：那是什麼，請說明，你用什麼方式已經驗證出了臺中實驗室污染？ |
| gazette.blocks[85][0] |
陳院長建仁：目前…… |
| gazette.blocks[86][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：這一批的其他的…… |
| gazette.blocks[87][0] |
徐委員巧芯：好…… |
| gazette.blocks[88][0] |
陳院長建仁：如果按照這個情況下，來，我們讓部長講。 |
| gazette.blocks[89][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：我說明一下，因為豬是統進統出的，所以一批肉如果有西布特羅污染的話，同批同品項一定也會污染，那我們查過了所有同批同品項並沒有受到污染。 |
| gazette.blocks[90][0] |
陳院長建仁：所以這就是科學。 |
| gazette.blocks[91][0] |
徐委員巧芯：來，你們驗出西布特羅的批次豬肉裡面，百分之多少已經賣掉了？ |
| gazette.blocks[92][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：賣掉的我不清楚，但是整個…… |
| gazette.blocks[93][0] |
徐委員巧芯：不清楚？你不清楚，你說都驗了，你剛說你們全都驗了，沒有驗出，這都是實驗室造假…… |
| gazette.blocks[94][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：沒有，不是…… |
| gazette.blocks[95][0] |
徐委員巧芯：百分之多少已經賣掉了，不清楚啊！哇！ |
| gazette.blocks[96][0] |
陳院長建仁：沒有人食品檢驗是這樣子的，不可能用百分之百，你這是完全外行的講法。 |
| gazette.blocks[97][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：所有的豬是吃同一批飼料的…… |
| gazette.blocks[98][0] |
徐委員巧芯：百分之九十都賣掉了，我告訴你答案，我不是農業部長耶！吃下肚了，你驗3%，最多…… |
| gazette.blocks[99][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：這個跟3%沒有關係，最主要是它同一批的肉是用同樣的飼料…… |
| gazette.blocks[100][0] |
徐委員巧芯：所有那一批次的豬肉你們驗了百分之多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[101][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：同一批的…… |
| gazette.blocks[102][0] |
徐委員巧芯：我問你是驗了百分之多少？國人有知道的權利，百分之多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[103][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：我們現在已經驗了4家、12家，已經17件了喔！ |
| gazette.blocks[104][0] |
徐委員巧芯：百分之多少嘛？ |
| gazette.blocks[105][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：已經足以證……，沒有，這跟百分比沒有關係，因為…… |
| gazette.blocks[106][0] |
徐委員巧芯：我想問百分之多少啊？ |
| gazette.blocks[107][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：百分比沒有關係。 |
| gazette.blocks[108][0] |
徐委員巧芯：我想知道啊！我今天問你的問題叫做驗出西布特羅的批次裡面，驗了幾個百分比？ |
| gazette.blocks[109][0] |
陳院長建仁：委員，你講的是外行話，所有的食安檢查，就是用同批的樣品來檢查，你現在講的是外行話。 |
| gazette.blocks[110][0] |
徐委員巧芯：這個批次裡面有幾包？食安報告裡面有寫…… |
| gazette.blocks[111][0] |
陳院長建仁：食安不是這樣檢查的！ |
| gazette.blocks[112][0] |
徐委員巧芯：你們報告裡面有寫幾包？這個批次有幾包？報告裡面寫的喔！嘿！你報告寫的耶！ |
| gazette.blocks[113][0] |
陳院長建仁：那你看啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[114][0] |
徐委員巧芯：你報告寫的，你們不知道答案是幾包啊？翻一下嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[115][0] |
陳院長建仁：你已經看了！ |
| gazette.blocks[116][0] |
徐委員巧芯：現在翻好不好？我給你一點時間，我還有9分鐘，翻一下你們裡面寫，這個批次有幾包？ |
| gazette.blocks[117][0] |
陳院長建仁：我跟你講過，所有的檢驗都……有36包被檢查，但是要強…… |
| gazette.blocks[118][0] |
徐委員巧芯：你們自己寫的報告，自己都不看！不，這個批次裡面有2,730包，這是你專案報告裡的數字！ |
| gazette.blocks[119][0] |
陳院長建仁：2,730包是所有的產品。 |
| gazette.blocks[120][0] |
徐委員巧芯：我剛剛問你這個問題嘛！你為什麼不翻翻報告，你裡面自己寫的。我問，請問你們驗了幾包？ |
| gazette.blocks[121][0] |
陳院長建仁：你這樣講，我很難回答！ |
| gazette.blocks[122][0] |
徐委員巧芯：驗了幾包？ |
| gazette.blocks[123][0] |
陳院長建仁：我們…… |
| gazette.blocks[124][0] |
徐委員巧芯：2,730包裡面驗了幾包？ |
| gazette.blocks[125][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：我們同一批17包。 |
| gazette.blocks[126][0] |
徐委員巧芯：不知道？ |
| gazette.blocks[127][0] |
陳院長建仁：同一批17包。 |
| gazette.blocks[128][0] |
徐委員巧芯：台糖送了36件，你們報告裡面寫的。 |
| gazette.blocks[129][0] |
陳院長建仁：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[130][0] |
徐委員巧芯：請問36件裡面是幾包？ |
| gazette.blocks[131][0] |
陳院長建仁：36包啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[132][0] |
徐委員巧芯：36件是36包，你要確定喔！它裡面寫的單位都不一樣喔！你自己都沒有好好看你的報告，連單位寫的都不一樣就亂回答。請問，如果驗出一包叫做不算，你如何用10%去推斷其他的90%不存在？ |
| gazette.blocks[133][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：我跟委員說明一下，整個食安的檢測不是用百分比，因為百分比是用抽檢…… |
| gazette.blocks[134][0] |
徐委員巧芯：我就想問你，怎麼樣去推論出來的？ |
| gazette.blocks[135][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：對，就是因為豬是同一批飼養，用同樣的飼料，所以如果他有檢測的時候…… |
| gazette.blocks[136][0] |
徐委員巧芯：所以，你認為驗出一包可以不算，那請問驗出第二包、第三包、第四包的話…… |
| gazette.blocks[137][0] |
薛部長瑞元：沒有驗出。 |
| gazette.blocks[138][0] |
陳院長建仁：沒有驗出任何一包…… |
| gazette.blocks[139][0] |
徐委員巧芯：任何一包，那現在驗出了沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[140][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：我們現在除了那一塊肉以外…… |
| gazette.blocks[141][0] |
徐委員巧芯：他們現在全都沒有驗出啊！唉！ |
| gazette.blocks[142][0] |
陳院長建仁：只有在那個實驗室的那一包才有，委員你這樣講，我們沒有辦法討論啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[143][0] |
徐委員巧芯：驗出第二包、第三包、第四包，沒有驗出來，是不是就不用公布了啊？ |
| gazette.blocks[144][0] |
陳院長建仁：委員你這樣講我們沒有辦法討論，你不按照科學的，按照目前的邏輯推論…… |
| gazette.blocks[145][0] |
徐委員巧芯：第一包就當作沒有發生…… |
| gazette.blocks[146][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：到目前為止都沒有。 |
| gazette.blocks[147][0] |
陳院長建仁：你這樣講沒有辦法討論…… |
| gazette.blocks[148][0] |
徐委員巧芯：食藥署、農業部過去是不是經常都這樣？驗出一包、兩包的，第三包驗不出來就沒公布…… |
| gazette.blocks[149][0] |
陳院長建仁：委員你這樣子不是理性、不是科學的根據，我就跟你講過…… |
| gazette.blocks[150][0] |
徐委員巧芯：我問你，我們食藥署、農業部有沒有曾經驗出一包任何的、有毒素的、違法的，但第二包以後都沒驗出來，就選擇不公布的經驗？ |
| gazette.blocks[151][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：我跟委員說明，如果我驗出一包以後，我會馬上針對同一批、同品項的產品去複驗，到目前為止都沒有。 |
| gazette.blocks[152][0] |
徐委員巧芯：對，第二包沒有之後就不公布，對不對？我們的SOP現在是這樣對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[153][0] |
陳院長建仁：SOP很簡單嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[154][0] |
徐委員巧芯：不公布？ |
| gazette.blocks[155][0] |
陳院長建仁：就是你去採樣，採樣來了以後，如果你發現它是有驗出，就應該讓廠商在15天內申請複驗，臺中市政府沒有做；第二件事情…… |
| gazette.blocks[156][0] |
徐委員巧芯：好，你跟我講15天，來，辣椒粉有沒有驗出蘇丹色素？ |
| gazette.blocks[157][0] |
陳院長建仁：我還沒有講完，第二件事情，它檢驗出來了以後，如果很低的濃度，應該要再去採其他的樣本來做檢驗。 |
| gazette.blocks[158][0] |
徐委員巧芯：辣椒粉有沒有驗出蘇丹色素？ |
| gazette.blocks[159][0] |
陳院長建仁：有啊！那是雲林縣驗出來的。 |
| gazette.blocks[160][0] |
徐委員巧芯：請問新北市跟雲林縣有等待廠商複驗15天嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[161][0] |
陳院長建仁：它驗出來以後，馬上新北市政府就去查了它的上游…… |
| gazette.blocks[162][0] |
徐委員巧芯：就怎麼樣？就公布了才讓廠商複驗嘛…… |
| gazette.blocks[163][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：沒有，不是…… |
| gazette.blocks[164][0] |
徐委員巧芯：還是你不知道？我們剛去查核過了。 |
| gazette.blocks[165][0] |
陳院長建仁：我覺得委員你又搞混了，那是因為…… |
| gazette.blocks[166][0] |
徐委員巧芯：所以蘇丹色素可以不用15天，但是瘦肉精要15天？ |
| gazette.blocks[167][0] |
陳院長建仁：不是，他們有溯源，這件事情很重要，一個有溯源，一個沒有溯源…… |
| gazette.blocks[168][0] |
徐委員巧芯：剛才不是糾結在15天嗎？現在15天去哪裡了？ |
| gazette.blocks[169][0] |
陳院長建仁：我就跟你講，你現在…… |
| gazette.blocks[170][0] |
徐委員巧芯：複驗是廠商的權利，但是跟公布是兩回事喔！我們食安法第五條寫的是什麼？唸法條給我聽！食安法第五條。 |
| gazette.blocks[171][0] |
陳院長建仁：紅辣椒的這件事情是因為他去溯源，新北市才查到另外一些，所以你剛才講的完全是兩回事。 |
| gazette.blocks[172][0] |
徐委員巧芯：食安法第五條裡面寫什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[173][0] |
陳院長建仁：食安法第五條，我沒有辦法記得那麼…… |
| gazette.blocks[174][0] |
徐委員巧芯：又不知道！你看我每次問你問題，你都不知道。該條裡面寫，各級主管機關依科學實證，建立食品衛生安全監測體系，於監測發現有危害食品安全之虞之事件發生時，應主動查驗，並發布預警或採行必要管制措施。 |
| gazette.blocks[175][0] |
陳院長建仁：對啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[176][0] |
徐委員巧芯：所以它寫得很清楚，申請複驗是廠商的權利，臺中市政府有讓台糖來申請複驗，但是什麼時候要公布是政府應該按照食安法第五條就要公布的…… |
| gazette.blocks[177][0] |
陳院長建仁：它科學、正確的檢驗…… |
| gazette.blocks[178][0] |
徐委員巧芯：臺中市食安處是不是食藥署的認證實驗單位？我們食藥署有沒有認可這個臺中實驗室？ |
| gazette.blocks[179][0] |
陳院長建仁：臺中市政府檢驗出來的時候是低劑量，它沒有去做進一步的驗證。 |
| gazette.blocks[180][0] |
徐委員巧芯：臺中市的食安處是野雞單位嗎？這個實驗室我們食藥署有沒有給認證？有嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[181][0] |
陳院長建仁：就是很低劑量的情況下，就是要複驗啊！他沒有認真去做啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[182][0] |
徐委員巧芯：現在驗出來的這個臺中食安處，你們有沒有給它認證通過？他們是不是一個合格的實驗室？ |
| gazette.blocks[183][0] |
陳院長建仁：認證是一回事，可是要每一個時間都要加以認證，所以…… |
| gazette.blocks[184][0] |
徐委員巧芯：有沒有嘛？我只問你，它有沒有被食藥署認證是一個合格的實驗室？是還是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[185][0] |
陳院長建仁：即使認證合格也不見得…… |
| gazette.blocks[186][0] |
徐委員巧芯：是還是不是？我先問你這個問題…… |
| gazette.blocks[187][0] |
陳院長建仁：也有可能是人為疏忽。 |
| gazette.blocks[188][0] |
徐委員巧芯：那它是還不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[189][0] |
陳院長建仁：你這樣講，任何一個被認證的實驗室都有疏忽，舉個例子，我們…… |
| gazette.blocks[190][0] |
徐委員巧芯：那它是還不是？我先問你這個問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[191][0] |
陳院長建仁：我們中央研究院P3實驗室被認證，但還是會疏忽啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[192][0] |
徐委員巧芯：我先問你這個問題，你怎麼知道我後面要問你什麼呢？它是不是一個合格的實驗室啊？ |
| gazette.blocks[193][0] |
陳院長建仁：它曾經被認為是。 |
| gazette.blocks[194][0] |
徐委員巧芯：已經不被認為了，是嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[195][0] |
陳院長建仁：曾經是。 |
| gazette.blocks[196][0] |
徐委員巧芯：「曾經是」的意思，就是現在已經不是了，所以你們取消臺中市政府這個食安單位的認證了，是嗎？是嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[197][0] |
陳院長建仁：你這樣講…… |
| gazette.blocks[198][0] |
徐委員巧芯：你的邏輯就是如此啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[199][0] |
陳院長建仁：你在玩語言遊戲啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[200][0] |
徐委員巧芯：好，如果你認為實驗室有污染的話，你要撤掉它的認證嗎？認證撤掉了沒有？什麼時候要啟動撤掉這個程序？以及是否要請檢調來調查臺中的這個實驗室？ |
| gazette.blocks[201][0] |
陳院長建仁：委員，我們是不是有請專家委員會去調查？ |
| gazette.blocks[202][0] |
徐委員巧芯：檢調呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[203][0] |
陳院長建仁：調查出來以後，再看要不要驗證…… |
| gazette.blocks[204][0] |
徐委員巧芯：有網友在網路上面po了一個綠雞蛋，你農業部是直接去提告民眾，所以你們應該要提告臺中市的這個實驗室，會不會提告？ |
| gazette.blocks[205][0] |
陳院長建仁：臺中市政府的實驗室要自己負起責任來。 |
| gazette.blocks[206][0] |
徐委員巧芯：提不提告？你覺得它今天做出了違背社會…… |
| gazette.blocks[207][0] |
陳院長建仁：這個責任包括二個部分，第一個，要確認它的檢驗是正確的；第二個，要讓廠商有複驗的機會，他們沒有做到。 |
| gazette.blocks[208][0] |
徐委員巧芯：按照社會秩序維護法，連在網路po綠雞蛋都被告，請問告不告臺中實驗室？告或不告？ |
| gazette.blocks[209][0] |
陳院長建仁：委員的問題很奇怪，臺中市政府對於它檢驗出來的西布特羅，發現只有它一塊…… |
| gazette.blocks[210][0] |
徐委員巧芯：網友也是買到綠雞蛋po網啊！那你也很奇怪，你告他幹嘛呢？還被法院打臉，丟臉耶！ |
| gazette.blocks[211][0] |
陳院長建仁：應該是臺中市政府要去負責啊！所以地方自治就是臺中市政府要負責啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[212][0] |
徐委員巧芯：沒有的事情你都提告了，為何有的事情你卻不告？還是心虛啊？ |
| gazette.blocks[213][0] |
陳院長建仁：但是臺中市政府也請中央來協助，所以我們才有組織專家委員會來幫忙嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[214][0] |
徐委員巧芯：有人說這個事件是政治千面人，你同意嗎？他們說臺中市政府下毒！你同意嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[215][0] |
陳院長建仁：我認為講千面人這件事情是危言聳聽！ |
| gazette.blocks[216][0] |
徐委員巧芯：危言聳聽？對這樣的造謠有沒有打算提告社維法？因為不見得是針對某一個批次的豬肉。 |
| gazette.blocks[217][0] |
陳院長建仁：但是我們馬上澄清，如果是千面人下毒絕對不是那個濃度…… |
| gazette.blocks[218][0] |
徐委員巧芯：所以在網路上造謠是千面人的，農業部不會對他提告，即便會影響到其他豬農都不提告？ |
| gazette.blocks[219][0] |
陳院長建仁：但是我們判斷這不是千面人啊！很簡單的食安的特色…… |
| gazette.blocks[220][0] |
徐委員巧芯：很有趣吧？我們當時也認為沒有綠雞蛋，但你為什麼提告綠雞蛋？ |
| gazette.blocks[221][0] |
陳院長建仁：委員，你不曉得千面人的下毒情況跟這個情形是完全不一樣…… |
| gazette.blocks[222][0] |
徐委員巧芯：有人在網路上造謠千面人，你現在不提告千面人嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[223][0] |
陳院長建仁：所以你現在是竹篙湊菜刀，亂湊！ |
| gazette.blocks[224][0] |
徐委員巧芯：所以不提告千面人？因為我已經幫你準備好了。我知道你們很愛告人，我幫你準備好了一批名單，上面是曾經說過現在有政治千面人在豬肉下毒，害很多民眾不敢買豬肉的名單。你們只要一聲令下，我馬上提供資料給你，讓你去告他們啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[225][0] |
陳院長建仁：委員，你這樣做無法讓臺灣食安繼續精進。 |
| gazette.blocks[226][0] |
徐委員巧芯：那怎麼樣可以…… |
| gazette.blocks[227][0] |
陳院長建仁：你只是在講政治的話語而已，對臺灣食安沒有幫助…… |
| gazette.blocks[228][0] |
徐委員巧芯：延遲公開就可以增加臺灣食安？驗出一包但不要公布，就可以很棒，增加臺灣食安？但是如果驗到了，很緊張，趕快公布出來，就是在讓我們的食安出問題？我再問你…… |
| gazette.blocks[229][0] |
陳院長建仁：那是你自己的看法。 |
| gazette.blocks[230][0] |
徐委員巧芯：這是民進黨的文宣，它寫說：臺中市政府採購西布特羅，流向去哪裡？說清楚！暗示因為採購西布特羅的關係，所以都有問題。各縣市政府採購西布特羅，院長，不可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[231][0] |
陳院長建仁：可以啊！但是就在實驗室裡面使用…… |
| gazette.blocks[232][0] |
徐委員巧芯：那你認為民進黨這樣沒有造謠的問題嗎？沒有抹黑的問題嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[233][0] |
陳院長建仁：你現在講到真正的重點，因為西布特羅只有在實驗室裡面，所以所有的飼養過程都不會有西布特羅的出現。現在只有一塊肉、在一個實驗室檢驗出來，請問這個西布特羅從哪裡來？你覺得呢？你的邏輯呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[234][0] |
徐委員巧芯：所以這麼多單位都有，食藥署也有買，食藥署也有…… |
| gazette.blocks[235][0] |
陳院長建仁：食藥署沒有檢驗出來啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[236][0] |
徐委員巧芯：這個民進黨的文宣裡面是不是造謠？它意圖讓人誤以為只要縣市政府有購買西布特羅，就是對這個豬肉下毒的人？ |
| gazette.blocks[237][0] |
陳院長建仁：所以有西布特羅的實驗室，又只有一塊肉檢驗出來，而這塊肉就是在臺中市政府的實驗室啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[238][0] |
徐委員巧芯：這是造謠吧？這是抹黑吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[239][0] |
陳院長建仁：完全不是啊！確實是…… |
| gazette.blocks[240][0] |
徐委員巧芯：請問陳建仁院長認不認為這張圖卡是在造謠、抹黑？還是你認同？你很認同嘛…… |
| gazette.blocks[241][0] |
陳院長建仁：我是認為臺中市政府確實有西布特羅，而臺中市政府檢驗的那塊肉也有西布特羅，也只有那塊肉有，這是事實！ |
| gazette.blocks[242][0] |
徐委員巧芯：剛才前面一位委員在問你的時候，吳思瑤委員說，微量驗出的話以後不用公布，你點頭。所以你要修法嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[243][0] |
吳委員思瑤：我抗議！我沒有這樣講！ |
| gazette.blocks[244][0] |
陳代理部長駿季：沒有這樣講。 |
| gazette.blocks[245][0] |
徐委員巧芯：他說微量的話可以不用公布，你在點頭。我請問，未來修法的方向是不是如果驗出一包或兩包的話，就可以不用修法…… |
| gazette.blocks[246][0] |
吳委員思瑤：我抗議！院長，我抗議！他扭曲我的意思。 |
| gazette.blocks[247][0] |
徐委員巧芯：這是我的時間，我剛剛聽起來就是這個意思。 |
| gazette.blocks[248][0] |
吳委員思瑤：我抗議！院長！ |
| gazette.blocks[249][0] |
徐委員巧芯：我剛剛聽起來我感覺就是這個意思。院長，請問你有沒有要修法有關於如果驗出微量0.001ppm，就要修法這樣的一個方向？你剛剛點頭如搗蒜是什麼意思呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[250][0] |
主席：各位委員同仁，跟大家報告兩個重點：第一個重點，請尊重質詢委員…… |
| gazette.blocks[251][0] |
徐委員巧芯：是，是我的質詢時間。 |
| gazette.blocks[252][0] |
主席：第二個重點，我們今天院會專案報告是用即問即答的方式進行，由委員與官員共同使用詢答時間。委員質詢，再由官員就質詢的範圍答復。因此，委員跟官員之間基於互相尊重，共同遵守此項規定，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[253][0] |
陳院長建仁：當然。 |
| gazette.blocks[254][0] |
主席：非常謝謝徐委員巧芯，也謝謝陳院長、列席官員，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[254][1] |
接下來我們請鍾委員佳濱。特別向院會報告一下，今天是鍾佳濱委員的生日，請所有的委員跟官員我們用掌聲來祝賀他，好不好？生日快樂！ |
| gazette.blocks[254][2] |
請鍾委員佳濱質詢。 |
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370 |
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院會-11-1-2 |
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韓國瑜 |
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陳昭姿 |
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李坤城 |
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洪孟楷 |
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洪申翰 |
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廖偉翔 |
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吳思瑤 |
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徐巧芯 |
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鍾佳濱 |
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謝龍介 |
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吳沛憶 |
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王育敏 |
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何欣純 |
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李彥秀 |
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王定宇 |
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羅智強 |
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277 |
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2024-02-23 |
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立法院第11屆第1會期第2次會議紀錄 |
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行政院院長提出「民進黨政府執政八年臺灣食安問題總檢討」專案報告並備質詢─ 詢答完畢─ |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
0.029 |
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0.67 |
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徐委員恭喜你來總政理委 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
21.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
43.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
院長你在過年的時候有告訴大家說你過去一年做錯很多事我現在就要來問問看你到底知不知道自己做錯什麼反省了沒有首先我們農業部去告民眾說他們綠雞蛋假消息你還跳出來說這是一則假消息結果被法院打臉了你有錯嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
44.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
69.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
法院的判斷你自己看看內容委員你看看那個法院的內容宣判的內容你講的不是這樣喔你看看法院宣判的內容他只是說他沒有辦法查證你那個不要扭曲法院的判斷不要扭曲法院的判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
69.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
73.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
台灣接了詐騙訊息,96%的民眾都收到過。去年被詐騙79億,政府有錯嗎?院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
90.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
98.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
有錯沒有這麼簡單的問題嗎?有錯沒有,我是問你覺得有沒有錯,以後我會慢慢問你要怎麼解決,你有沒有錯?政府有沒有錯?有錯沒有回答不出來,國防、國防檢視均形說成是飛彈,你在立法院裡面說台灣被飛彈攻擊了,你有沒有錯? |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
114.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
114.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
委員這一個你要有證據喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
133.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
148.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
這個昨天在我們的檢察官講的他沒有沒有證實沒有證實是碰撞防護你這個要負責任你要負責任的講法你這個要負責任喔這是你講的喔碰撞防護是你講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
150.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
152.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
你也覺得沒有錯百分之百知道的 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
174.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
189.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
院長你剛在備刑的時候說要給臺堂申復期要晚15天公佈我問喔這個案子如果晚15天公佈除了讓國人晚15天知道事實真相以外會不會驗出希伏特羅我只談這個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
192.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
202.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
會過不會嗎?只有15分鐘的時間而已為什麼要浪費呢?中央有沒有驗出希伏特羅?這個案子晚15天公佈會不會驗出希伏特羅?我剛剛都聽過了你叫施政要浪費國民黨委員的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
214.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
224.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
但是他沒有照標準作業流程來做而且他驗出來的量是0.00的ppm是相當的低極度的低那一塊肉才有其他沒有那一塊肉才有驗出來好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
239.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
249.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
你剛剛說台中的實驗室污染喔你說台中的實驗室污染是刪去法你是在參加百萬小學堂嗎所以你剛剛說你認為台中實驗室是 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
261.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
270.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
當然有但是呢現在目前我們如果按照這個情況下來我説明一下齁就是當因為豬是統進統出的所以一批肉如果說有西伏特羅汙染的話那同批同品項的一定也會汙染那我們查過了所有的同批同品項並沒有受到汙染來 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
291.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
319.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
你們呢驗出西伯特羅的批次豬肉裡面百分之多少已經賣掉了?賣掉的我不清楚,但是整個...不清楚?你說你都驗了?你剛剛說你們全都驗了,沒有驗出...沒有,可能用百分之百,你這是完全外行的講法所有的豬齁,他是吃好一批飼料的我告訴你答案,我不是農業部長欸吃下肚了,你驗3% |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
320.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
321.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我想問百分之多少啊?我想知道啊! |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
346.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
364.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
委員你講的是外行話所有的食安的檢查就是用同批的樣品來檢查你現在講的是外行話食安不是這樣檢查的你們報告裡面有寫幾包這個批字有幾包報告裡面寫的喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
365.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
384.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
嘿!你報告寫的欸!那你看啊!你報告寫的你們不知道答案是幾包啊?翻譯一下嘛!你自己看嘛!我給你一點時間,我還有9分鐘。翻譯一下你們裡面寫這個批次有幾包。我跟你講過,所有的檢驗有36包被檢查。你們自己寫的報告是都不看的!不!這個批次裡面有2730包是你專案報告裡的數字! |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
390.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
403.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
2730包是所有的產品我剛剛問你這個問題嘛你為什麼不翻翻報告你裡面自己寫的我問請問你們驗了幾包你這樣講我難回答驗了幾包2730包裡面驗了幾包我們同一批17包不知道同一批17包台唐送了36件你們裡面寫的請問他36件裡面是幾包36 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
414.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
419.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我跟委員說明一下齁整個食安的一個檢測的部分它不是用百分比的部分因為百分比是用抽檢的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
440.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
465.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
對,就是因為他租是同一批飼養,用同樣的飼料,所以你如果說他有檢測的時候,那請問驗出第二包、第三包、第四包的話,幾包可以算?任何一包,那現在驗出了沒有?我們現在除了月塊肉以外,那個是驗出那一包才有。委員你這樣講我們沒有辦法討論啦,你不按照公學的推論,你不按照邏輯推論, |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
467.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
472.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我問你我們食藥署農業部有沒有曾經驗出一包任何的有毒素的違法的但第二包以後都沒驗出來就選擇不公佈的經驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
488.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
517.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我跟委員說明喔如果說我驗出一包以後我會馬上針對同一批同品下來的產品去復驗但目前為止都沒有我們的SOP現在是這樣對不對SOP很簡單嘛就是說你去採樣採樣來了以後如果你發現他是有驗出就應該讓廠商在15天內要申請復驗台中市政府沒有做第二件事情還沒有講完第二件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
517.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
528.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
他檢驗出來了以後如果很低的濃度應該要再去採其他的樣本來做檢驗有啊那是雲林縣檢出來的他驗出來以後馬上新北市政府就去查了他的上游 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
540.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
542.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
還是你不知道? |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
542.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
555.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我覺得委員你又搞混了。 所以蘇丹各組可以不用15天,但是受援要15天。 不是,他們有溯源。這一件事情很重要,一個有溯源一個沒有溯源。 還在糾結在15天嗎?那現在15天去哪裡了? |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
556.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
558.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
十案法第五條裡面寫什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
576.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
578.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所以他寫得很清楚,申請復驗是廠商的權利,臺中市政府有讓臺堂來申請復驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
600.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
611.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
但是什麼時候要公佈是政府應該按照食安法第5條就要公佈的。台中市政府是不是食藥署的認證所單位。我們食藥署有任何這個台中食品署。 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
617.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
626.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
臺中市的食安處是野雞單位嗎?這個實驗室我們食藥署有沒有給認證?有嗎?沒有,你們有沒有給實驗?現在驗出來的這個臺中食安處你們有沒有給他認證通過?他們是不是一個合格的實驗室?他有認證是一回事可是要每一個時間都要加以認證所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
640.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
643.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
659.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
681.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
曾經被認為是已經不被認為了是嗎曾經是現在曾經是的意思就是現在已經不是了所以你們取消台中市政府的這個實案單位的認證了是嗎是嗎你這樣講你的邏輯就是如此啊如果你認為實驗室有污染的話你要撤掉他的認證嗎認證撤掉了沒有什麼時候要啟動撤掉的這個程序以及是否要請檢調來調查台中的這個實驗室 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
689.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
703.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
委員,我們是不是有請專家委員會去調查?那調查出來以後在談判要不要認真呢?你農業不是直接去提告民眾所以你們應該要提告台中市的這個實業市會不會提告? |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
706.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
706.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
請問告不告台中實驗室?告或不告? |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
725.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
753.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
這個委員的問題是很奇怪臺中市政府對於他檢驗出來的這一個西部特樓發現只有他一塊應該是臺中市政府要去負責啊所以地方自治就是臺中市政府要負責但是臺中市政府也請中央來協助所以我們才有組織專家委員會來幫忙嘛那有人說呢這個事件是政治牽面人你同意嗎他們說臺中市政府下毒啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
755.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
776.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我認為講千面人這件事情是危言聳聽。那這樣子的造謠有沒有打算提告社會法?因為海湖建格是針對某一個批次的豬肉嘛。但是我們馬上就澄清,如果是千面人下毒,絕對不是那個濃度。所以在網路上面套牢千面人的農業會不會對他提告?即便會影響到其他的豬農都不提告? |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
777.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
794.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
但是我們不判斷這是缺面人啊。我們很簡單的食安的特色。委員你不懂嗎?委員你不曉得缺面人的下午情況跟這個情形是完全不一樣。所以你現在是這個第二道菜都亂倒了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
795.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
812.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
所以不提告簽名人的因為我已經幫你準備好了我知道你們很愛告人我幫你準備好了一批名單上面就是有曾經說過現在有政治簽名人在吐豬肉下毒害很多民眾不敢買豬肉的名單你們只要一聲令下我馬上提供資料給你讓你去告他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
813.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
822.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
委員你這樣做沒有辦法增進臺灣食安的繼續的精進。你只是在延遲公開就可以增加我們臺灣的食安。延遲食安沒有幫助。 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
829.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
851.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
但是如果驗到了很緊張趕快公佈出來就是在讓我們的食安出問題我再問你這是民進黨的文宣他寫說臺中市政府採購西部特羅劉向去哪裡說清楚暗示因為採購西部特羅的關係所以你們都有問題各縣市政府採購西部特羅院長不可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
852.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
871.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
可以啊,但是就在實驗室裡面使用。因為現在講到真正的重點,因為西部特羅只有在實驗室裡面,所以所有的飼養的過程都不會有西部特羅的出現。那現在只有一塊肉在一個實驗室檢驗出來,請問這個西部特羅從哪裡來? |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
874.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
896.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
所以他們多單位都有啊,食藥署有買啊,食藥署沒檢驗出來啊。所以有斯布特羅的實驗室就只有一塊肉檢驗出來,這一塊肉就是在台東市政府的實驗室啦。這個是造謠吧?這是抹黑吧?請問同線的院長認不認為這一張圖卡是在造謠在抹黑啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
903.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
927.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
我是認為臺州市政府確實有西部特龍,而臺州市政府檢驗的那一塊肉也有西部特龍,也只有那一塊肉有,這是事實。違量元素的違量驗出的話以後不用公佈你點頭,所以你要修法嗎?他說違量的話可以不用公佈,你再點頭,你說我請問未來修法的方向是不是如果驗出 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
938.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
946.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
徐巧芯各位委員同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
953.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
975.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
好各位委員同仁跟大家報告兩個重點第一個重點請尊重諮詢委員第二個重點我們今天會專案報告是用疾問疾答的方式進行由委員跟官員共同用使用詢答時間委員諮詢再由官員就諮詢的範圍答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
977.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
983.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
因此,委員跟官員之間基於互相尊重,共同遵守此項規定。 |