| IVOD_ID |
149132 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149132 |
| 日期 |
2024-02-23 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-1-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期第2次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院第11屆第1會期第2次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-02-23T11:46:52+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-02-23T12:02:57+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:16:05 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/61d28f3f53a2feb64cf030d5fc7afcf8b347916f9bc661eaf8ba9b0039caa7a6d5c0bb4227e03c4a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
廖偉翔 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:46:52 - 12:02:57 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-02-23T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第1會期第2次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。
二、2月23日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。
三、2月27日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。） |
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報告院長,請行政院長陳建仁院長請行政院陳院長備詢。廖委員好,首先恭喜你當選立委。謝謝院長。 |
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35.455 |
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55.305 |
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院長上週四2月15號你在新春團拜的時候說你當這個你被問到今年祈禱是什麼時候你說你要自我檢討因為過去一年你做錯了很多事情那想要請教有沒有包括2月1號當天台中驗出含禁藥肉品後中央的處置 |
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56.463 |
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71.175 |
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當然沒有,我們天主教徒每一天早上我啦,每天去參加彌撒的時候,我們都會跟天主來祈禱。那我們做錯很多事,譬如說我是不是對人誠懇啊,對朋友交代的事有沒有做得很好,不包括這件事。 |
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71.895 |
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96.045 |
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是,但是在2月7號的時候石耀署也復驗出西部特羅那我們薛瑞元部長和吳秀梅署長也說排除實驗室問題結果到了15號後為什麼卻又開始帶風向說要查台中的實驗室委員我可以,好這個實驗室的問題是實驗的標準作業流程是沒有問題因為兩邊都檢測出來0.002ppm但是 |
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100.267 |
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101.008 |
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剛才洪森漢委員在做這種消去法的情形 |
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126.96 |
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127.12 |
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當然阿! |
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156.756 |
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176.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
這就是我們剛才為什麼講的所以你都排除所有可能性你認為唯一的可能就是實驗室誤來對嗎?沒有即使在所有的操作上臺中市政府有件事情沒有做好這件事情就是他18號來採檢以後他檢出來第一次檢出來如果有問題應該要給臺堂15天的生父檢驗的期間 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
177.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
178.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
﹚廖偉翔﹚廖偉翔﹚ |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
207.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
228.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那我想請問你覺得過程中是哪裡有問題?你覺得是不是需要專家學者來判斷嗎?但是依照台中市政府的講法他們在這個標準品的混充的時候跟這個豬肉也完全是分開驗的那如果實驗室有汙染的話他從中間查驗了40包肉為什麼只有一包肉有驗出西部特羅這是第一個點 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
229.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
243.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
好第二個點中央剛剛講到中央明明知道我們地方研究室配置的標準品的地點空間人員跟豬肉被檢驗的地點空間人員都是不同的地方而且都是完備證明也是依照你們的標準去操作的 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
244.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
264.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
第三點,中央官員跟中央的專家也都參加了復驗。中央也另外派人審查過台中市的實驗室的,前面也都先確定沒有問題的。卻又推翻說沒有問題的認定,先設建再劃板,浪費行政資源開專家會議。請問你有新的事證證明說他們的這個實驗室有污染嗎?你剛剛是不是說沒辦法? |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
269.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
288.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
現在在整個實驗室18號到後來2月2號公布這個期間已經過了兩個禮拜的時間而且也沒有什麼樣的攝影的機制在所以我們真的沒有辦法去看那段時間有沒有錯誤但是最嚴重的事情就是在這18天裡面沒有做第二個檢體的檢驗而且沒有讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
293.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
313.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我想問一下院長,食藥署跟中央是不是可以跨部會整合去抽驗其他同批次的豬肉?但是,我們已經驗了,結果都沒有驗出來。而且更重要的,他從來沒有請求中央來說來協助他,沒有啊,所以就關布了啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
314.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
324.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
所以這真的公佈合理嗎?15天的時間都沒有給台常人。您稍等我一下,您說的同批豬肉,對,您先等我一下。你們一直在講同批豬肉,查到的。可是就我們這裡溯源編碼確認,總共這批豬肉瘦出了372公斤。 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
335.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
335.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我跟妳講妳要問齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
350.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
361.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
如果一隻豬吃了瘦肉一群豬吃了瘦肉精這個瘦肉精只會跑到一隻豬的那一塊豬肉才奇怪那我想請問這3%裡面有一包被驗出來了你確保其他97%完全沒有問題當然是喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
366.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
393.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
所以你覺得你這3%裡面有一包驗出來你97%就完全的沒問題我跟委員說明一下齁就是豬的一個飼養是統進統出的你講的食安是科學這就是科學你講的是政治齁所以沒有我講的不是政治我跟你講的是你們剛剛講的是實驗室可是從中間這6個月的倉儲的問題還有這3%的問題其他的同批豬肉你也沒辦法全部找回來內臟也沒辦法全部找回來的情況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
393.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
412.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
你也不能夠完全推斷說就是實業室有問題你沒有不講科學嘛這裡沒有不講科學我剛剛講出的疑點都是現在的問題我都講過同一批豬同樣的飼料去飼養然後同一個除災場去除災如果要有的話絕對不會只有一個檢體上是有的你這個母體只有3%喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
415.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
425.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
你還有剩下97%你追蹤不回來,包含內臟你也追蹤不回來。剛剛陳昭之委員問的,你內臟也追蹤不到嘛。那內臟是不是這個時候已經是溫度會更高的地方?這也是剝削吧。現在的問題不是你反對。 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
431.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
433.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
二月22日衛福部跟農業部又分別召開專家會議。 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
453.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
475.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
結果當下沒有馬上把這個會議內容公開出來然後反而是要全部統籌起來你們再統一公布這樣的做法以前也沒有這樣以前也會公開出來我想要請問這樣子透明公開很難嗎而且專家會議的紀錄拖延同批的豬肉早就被吃下肚也查不了現在用這種方式去混淆焦點這不就是帶風向嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
477.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
497.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
所以我認為這件事情在處理的過程中你們在過去一年的措施我認為應該是包含這件事情我覺得你的稿子講的錯了啦這一個所有的專家委員會議就是我們大家一起來好好討論討論完了以後有一定的時間以後我們會對外公布嘛所以你這樣講是不對的啦接下來這是一個八年食安的專案報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
502.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
516.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以早上院長你親口向這個立法院的報告說你說大幅增加查驗我認為你是在說謊因為根據我們跟農業部調的株枝已行受體數的瘦肉精監測結果的歷年統計 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
519.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
535.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
檢驗次數在103年的時候還有14000多件,結果民進黨執政8年第一年105年掉到12000多件。看看過去10年的變化,到了這個112年的時候只剩下5900多件,大幅縮小了57%。 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
537.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
548.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那是因為在那一段時間,很多的樣本是有瘦肉精,所以才要做檢驗。那當我們檢驗到後來沒有的時候,當然不需要那麼大量。 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
554.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
572.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
數據會說話。你早上說的是你大幅增加了檢驗的能量。這個情形是對瘦肉精來講。我講的是對整體的情形來做檢驗的。再來我要問一下。你這個東西在很危險的情況下當然要大量檢驗。就是因為在103到106有很多很多的瘦肉精的使用嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
574.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
586.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所以你後面減少你就是推斷都沒有了才會減少可是你早上明明說的事情叫做你增加了你是不是自我打臉所有的檢驗項目是增加了你現在只找收入金這一項是不公平的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
587.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
611.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我再問你們一個我們看中央政府到底重不重視食安就從食品安全業務的中央最高編組行政院的食安會報的設置來看而這個會報是不是每三個月就應該開一次會不包含臨時會所以換句話說每一年至少要開四次會議請問你們的行政院的食安會報有沒有按照規定定期開會有啊我在這的時候都是定期開會啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
612.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
633.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
有,那你就是騙人囉,因為我去查到資料,這兩年2022年到2023年都沒有準時開會,這兩年每一年尤其2022年包含我們衛福部長應該升為時安衛報的執行長,在2022年跟2023年每年都只參加一次,另外每一年還另外缺席兩次。 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
634.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
658.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
在沒有準時開會的前提下過去8年也只開了24次會但是你知道衛福部長身為食安會的執行長當中缺席了幾次嗎?他有些時候有重要的任務他會不來這是我們可以了解但是你不要把COVID-19的時間的狀況拿來講你現在在疫情很盛行的情況下大家忙著疫情的時候但是這8年來我們的時間做得還是很好啊沒有開會還做得很好啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
663.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
680.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
所以8年：好你說做得很好我等一下再講8年來有一半的食安匯報我們的食安匯報執行長也就是衛福部長都缺席有一半而且我還抓包你們不止一年行政院食安匯報的次數還會灌不水你們2017年跟2019年開一次會變成兩次會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
685.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
696.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我想要請問,你們2017年2019年開支會斷水變成兩次,是不是?當時防疫比較重要,比食安更重要2017年2019年防疫2022年2023年防疫你現在在講的那個時間,很多時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
701.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
701.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
對阿2019到2022年 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
731.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
755.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
就我們的部長已經就任以後,上一次開會時安會報是2023年3月27日,也就是說到現在已經有333天沒有參加過時安會報了。我想請問院長,如果你很重視時安,你們會是這樣子對待時安會報的嗎?時安如果按照時安會報就能夠解決,那我們不要跨部會的努力啦,也不要跟地方政府合作啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
756.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
768.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
不是這樣,時安會報只是綜合性的來報告而已啦。綜合性報告不就是掌握進度會跨部會追蹤嗎?因為用這個來推進難怪。那我想問院長,平常當然就應該努力,可是參加時安會報難道不是你們行政院最高編組的會報嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
779.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
808.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
不能夠用食安匯報就來認為這個食安我們有沒有重視。你想想看這個台中市發布消息以後每一天都在做這個瘦肉精的重視。那難怪我想要告訴院長所以因為你們這種態度所以2023年你們發生非常多的重大的食安事件冷凍藍莓在邊境被稽查出有A肝病毒但卻發生了14000多包流入市面17000多公斤被賣出或食用 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
809.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
830.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
同樣在2023年的上半年的邊境稽查就至少超過50多批的日本草莓、智利櫻桃被驗出農藥、禁藥也不必說逐批的這個流入市面的追查進度喔至今讓大家都不明白這件事情你覺得民眾會覺得你們真的很重視食安嗎?當然 2023年的1月到2月的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
831.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
834.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
所以中央跟地方為什麼要合作來做加強檢驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
856.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
871.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
這都是加強檢驗的結果。這是加強檢驗的結果。如果不做檢驗,那就會進來大家都不知道。所以你是你們還是進去的啊。你說你檢驗出來,但是還有一萬四千多,一萬四千多包流入市面呢?已經被民眾吃下肚了不是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
879.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
896.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
所以我們再來講上一年度最大的事件也就是這個進口雞蛋混沖國產雞蛋標示成國產蛋液。業旦的事情所以同樣的事情因為你們戰後職守沒有開食安會報當初每個部會各說各話互相打臉不是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
897.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
912.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
不是這樣子。不是。那為什麼當初連標示日期都可以搞不清楚?當時的這些雞蛋變成了夜蛋會有標示成台灣產地確實是因為對於這個夜蛋標示的方式認知不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
912.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
914.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
同樣當時的台中市也查獲未來彈,標示的生產日期還比實際日期還要長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
963.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
965.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
謝謝兩位委員：偉翔的質詢 |