| IVOD_ID |
149090 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149090 |
| 日期 |
2024-01-09 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
臨時會院會-10-8-1-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第10屆第8會期第1次臨時會第1次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
10 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
8 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.臨時會會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院第10屆第8會期第1次臨時會第1次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-01-09T15:34:15+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-01-09T15:49:50+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:35 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7594f10b9bbee68998896c42cdb53a27826b98f121effac12be4303bcf228b5062239c163286f5825ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
林為洲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
15:34:15 - 15:49:50 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-01-09T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第10屆第8會期第1次臨時會第1次會議（事由：行政院院長提出「是否公布高端合約？是否圖利廠商及危害全民健康權益？」等相關事宜專案報告並備質詢） |
| gazette.lineno |
482 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
林委員為洲：（15時34分）謝謝院長，我們請陳院長，還有薛部長也一起上來。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：院長，請。部長，請。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
林委員為洲：國防部長有來嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
陳院長建仁：國防部長沒有來。林委員早。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
林委員為洲：剛剛3點05分國家警報…… |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
陳院長建仁：就是我們有一個警報是中國發射了衛星。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
林委員為洲：你剛剛是講說飛彈。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
陳院長建仁：對，我講錯了，因為我剛好要上來質詢，我只是說發射，我想說發射，實際上是發射衛星，但是因為有經過…… |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
林委員為洲：發射衛星要國家級警報嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
陳院長建仁：當然啊！因為它也是一個火箭的投射器發射。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
林委員為洲：中國發射衛星發射多少你知道嗎？有每一次都發國家級警報嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
陳院長建仁：不是，就經過我們本島、經過我國的…… |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
林委員為洲：上一次真正發射飛彈橫越臺灣上空，就沒有發國家級警報。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
陳院長建仁：就是防空警報，這個有啊，就是剛才發出來的這個。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
林委員為洲：所以你們現在是怎樣？碰到選舉，製造緊張嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
陳院長建仁：我想我們有…… |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
林委員為洲：以前飛彈飛過臺灣領空…… |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
陳院長建仁：我們有義務要讓民眾知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
林委員為洲：說大氣層不屬於領空，沒有發國家警報，現在發射一個衛星，你發國家級警報，我還收到兩次…… |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
陳院長建仁：當然要讓民眾知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
林委員為洲：你還講說是飛彈。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
陳院長建仁：我講錯，這是我的口誤。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
林委員為洲：你在嚇臺灣人嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
陳院長建仁：這是我的口誤，但是確實是有經過臺灣的上空。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
林委員為洲：好，口誤。你看一下，你有沒有看上面寫的？ |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
陳院長建仁：剛才一看，還沒有看完的時候我就上來答復了，我覺得這是一個很重要的訊息，需要…… |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
林委員為洲：唸給你聽，3點05分，中國發射衛星，已飛越南部上空，請民眾注意安全。若發現不明物體，通報警消人員處理。那個衛星是會掉下來，是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
薛部長瑞元：誰知道？ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
陳院長建仁：不、不、不，所以委員，我…… |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
林委員為洲：人家發射衛星，你在警告我們的民眾。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
陳院長建仁：推動的火箭，每一節、每一節的火箭都會落到地下，這就是為什麼要提高警覺。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
林委員為洲：我覺得你們發的這個警報容易讓人誤解，你看它的英文，叫做：〔Air raid Alert〕Missile flyover Taiwan airspace, be aware. 是Missile還是Satellite？人造衛星怎麼講？ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
陳院長建仁：satellite啊。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
林委員為洲：怎麼寫missile？ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
陳院長建仁：這個我就…… |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
林委員為洲：你寫飛彈耶！你以為臺灣人都不懂英文，是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
陳院長建仁：這個錯誤的話，我們要來更正，錯誤馬上更正。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
林委員為洲：你在嚇臺灣人…… |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
陳院長建仁：不是嚇…… |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
林委員為洲：現在你又介選，是嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
陳院長建仁：這是不是…… |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
林委員為洲：奧步啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
陳院長建仁：發射衛星有很多不同的路線，為什麼一定要經過臺灣上空？這個我沒有辦法替你回答，我沒有辦法替中國來回答…… |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
林委員為洲：第一次我們看到對岸發射衛星…… |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
陳院長建仁：我沒有辦法幫中國來回答。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
林委員為洲：我收兩次國家級警報，英文還寫成missile。 |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
陳院長建仁：這是火箭搭載著衛星，為什麼要公告？就是我講的，這個火箭會一節、一節掉下來，而且…… |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
林委員為洲：這麼剛好，選前4天。 |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
陳院長建仁：有沒有介選，這是你自己講的，但是中國的衛星…… |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
林委員為洲：你們在介選啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
陳院長建仁：為什麼衛星…… |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
林委員為洲：用這樣誤導的訊息、國家級警報，用國家機器在介選。 |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
陳院長建仁：投射衛星有各種不同的路線，可是它偏偏要經過臺灣南部上空…… |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
林委員為洲：那你先道歉，它的英文讓人誤導。 |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
陳院長建仁：那你不覺得這需要讓民眾知道嗎？這個衛星為什麼一定要經過臺灣南部上空，要不要讓民眾知道？要啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
林委員為洲：讓人誤導是當作飛彈。 |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
陳院長建仁：沒有啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
林委員為洲：你們發的簡訊英文，你怎麼解釋？ |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
陳院長建仁：火箭搭載發射的衛星。 |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
林委員為洲：你為什麼不寫Satellite？ |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
陳院長建仁：我們一定要讓民眾知道，投射這個衛星之後，火箭會掉下來，大家要小心。 |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
林委員為洲：不要硬拗啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
陳院長建仁：為什麼它偏偏要經過臺灣南部呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
林委員為洲：你的簡訊誤導民眾，讓民眾容易誤會真的是發射飛彈，對不對？你的簡訊。要不要道歉？ |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
陳院長建仁：我們會更正。 |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
林委員為洲：你為什麼不直接寫是artificial satellite？ |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
陳院長建仁：satellite不是用launch，satellite不是用這個字。所以我想…… |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
林委員為洲：你剛才不是跟我回答人造衛星英文是satellite？ |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
陳院長建仁：satellite，對啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
林委員為洲：你為什麼不用satellite？ |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
陳院長建仁：但是satellite flyover，這一句話要小心，因為人造衛星本來就在地球周圍繞來繞去…… |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
林委員為洲：你是科學家，好，你現在要來解釋。好啦…… |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
陳院長建仁：這是一個投射的行為，而投射的路徑不一定要經過臺灣的南部，可是它偏偏選擇臺灣南部的這個路線。 |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
林委員為洲：以前他們發過多少衛星，從來我們都不曾接受過這種國家級警報，這麼剛好，選舉前4天你就發一個容易讓人誤導的，說中共發射飛彈。 |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
陳院長建仁：我也覺得在這個時候，為什麼你不去譴責中國，我們選舉要到了，為什麼偏偏要發射這個路線…… |
| gazette.blocks[75][0] |
林委員為洲：我當然譴責啊！我常常在譴責，你沒聽過？ |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
陳院長建仁：要經過臺灣南部，為什麼偏偏要經過臺灣？ |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
林委員為洲：你為什麼要誤導？誤導民眾？你發的簡訊耶！你回去檢討，國防部為什麼這個簡訊寫成這個樣子？ |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
陳院長建仁：這個我們錯誤的要檢討，沒錯。 |
| gazette.blocks[79][0] |
林委員為洲：防空警報，然後寫成missile，讓人誤導是…… |
| gazette.blocks[80][0] |
陳院長建仁：這是一個防空的警報，因為火箭的那個會掉下來、會砸到人啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[81][0] |
林委員為洲：第一次啦！第一次有這種國家級警報是因為發射衛星。 |
| gazette.blocks[82][0] |
陳院長建仁：它是因為經過…… |
| gazette.blocks[83][0] |
林委員為洲：你有沒有接過這種警報？ |
| gazette.blocks[84][0] |
陳院長建仁：以往發射衛星沒有經過臺灣南部上空，所以為什麼我剛才講…… |
| gazette.blocks[85][0] |
林委員為洲：不要用這種奧步啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[86][0] |
陳院長建仁：為什麼中國偏偏要發射衛星經過臺灣南部上空？你要去問中國啊！你怎麼問我？ |
| gazette.blocks[87][0] |
林委員為洲：什麼問中國，你自己解讀錯誤，你還問中國！ |
| gazette.blocks[88][0] |
陳院長建仁：我沒有解讀錯誤，它明明有經過臺灣南部上空…… |
| gazette.blocks[89][0] |
林委員為洲：衛星，不是飛彈。 |
| gazette.blocks[90][0] |
陳院長建仁：那為什麼在選前4天它要選擇這一個路線？問中國！請委員…… |
| gazette.blocks[91][0] |
林委員為洲：以前有經過，你們都不會發啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[92][0] |
陳院長建仁：沒有！以前打衛星的時候沒有經過臺灣上空。 |
| gazette.blocks[93][0] |
林委員為洲：以前連飛彈飛過，你都沒發過這種國家級警報！ |
| gazette.blocks[94][0] |
陳院長建仁：所以委員你去問中國嘛…… |
| gazette.blocks[95][0] |
林委員為洲：好啦，民眾…… |
| gazette.blocks[96][0] |
陳院長建仁：你為什麼凡事都沒有去問中國？明明中國發射的衛星，為什麼要選擇這一條路線、選擇這個時間內來去…… |
| gazette.blocks[97][0] |
林委員為洲：這個我們常常在講…… |
| gazette.blocks[98][0] |
陳院長建仁：所以你要去問它。 |
| gazette.blocks[99][0] |
林委員為洲：我跟你講，蔡英文總統上臺以後，兩岸中線不見了，這個也是事實嘛，國民黨執政的時候沒有這種問題呀！ |
| gazette.blocks[100][0] |
陳院長建仁：因為你…… |
| gazette.blocks[101][0] |
林委員為洲：因為什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[102][0] |
陳院長建仁：你屈服給中國，當然…… |
| gazette.blocks[103][0] |
林委員為洲：什麼叫屈服？有賣臺了嘛？ |
| gazette.blocks[104][0] |
陳院長建仁：你贊成要統一呀！ |
| gazette.blocks[105][0] |
林委員為洲：我沒有贊成要統一喔，我沒有贊成要統一呀！ |
| gazette.blocks[106][0] |
陳院長建仁：我說……我不是指你呀。 |
| gazette.blocks[107][0] |
林委員為洲：我支持我們的憲法！ |
| gazette.blocks[108][0] |
陳院長建仁：馬英九總統的時候是這樣子呀。 |
| gazette.blocks[109][0] |
林委員為洲：我們支持我們的憲法，憲法怎麼規定，我們就怎麼做，你不支持我們憲法嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[110][0] |
陳院長建仁：那我們的憲法修正草案怎麼說？ |
| gazette.blocks[111][0] |
林委員為洲：憲法是災難嗎？我們的治權就是臺澎金馬。 |
| gazette.blocks[112][0] |
陳院長建仁：喔，臺澎金馬。 |
| gazette.blocks[113][0] |
林委員為洲：憲法修正條……這個…… |
| gazette.blocks[114][0] |
陳院長建仁：修正條文怎麼說？ |
| gazette.blocks[115][0] |
林委員為洲：對呀，臺澎金馬是我們的治權。 |
| gazette.blocks[116][0] |
陳院長建仁：是呀。 |
| gazette.blocks[117][0] |
林委員為洲：但是我們國家叫中華民國。 |
| gazette.blocks[118][0] |
陳院長建仁：是，我們的國家叫中華民國。 |
| gazette.blocks[119][0] |
林委員為洲：固有疆域有包括中國大陸。 |
| gazette.blocks[120][0] |
陳院長建仁：那是固有疆域…… |
| gazette.blocks[121][0] |
林委員為洲：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[122][0] |
陳院長建仁：那你延長…… |
| gazette.blocks[123][0] |
林委員為洲：兩岸條例就是在處理這個問題呀。 |
| gazette.blocks[124][0] |
陳院長建仁：蒙古的固有疆域包括中國…… |
| gazette.blocks[125][0] |
林委員為洲：那你不認同我們的憲法？ |
| gazette.blocks[126][0] |
陳院長建仁：不是，蒙古……我們的固有疆域包括中國…… |
| gazette.blocks[127][0] |
林委員為洲：你們現在民進黨不是多數？ |
| gazette.blocks[128][0] |
陳院長建仁：修正條文就講…… |
| gazette.blocks[129][0] |
林委員為洲：好啦！我要提出…… |
| gazette.blocks[130][0] |
陳院長建仁：中華民國憲法…… |
| gazette.blocks[131][0] |
林委員為洲：好啦！我們沒有要來跟你辯論憲法。 |
| gazette.blocks[132][0] |
陳院長建仁：你剛才講臺澎金馬，你講的…… |
| gazette.blocks[133][0] |
林委員為洲：我在這裡嚴厲譴責國防部，民進黨政府在選前4天發了這樣的一個國家級警報，有的人收4次、有人收2次，發射一個衛星誤導成說發射飛彈…… |
| gazette.blocks[134][0] |
陳院長建仁：那你為什麼不譴責中國？ |
| gazette.blocks[135][0] |
林委員為洲：顯然就是故意要介選。 |
| gazette.blocks[136][0] |
陳院長建仁：你們譴責中國偏偏在選舉的時候發射…… |
| gazette.blocks[137][0] |
林委員為洲：沒有人要你回答！現在我們來談高端，我還有時間，是我在質詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[138][0] |
陳院長建仁：但是我們共用時間呀。 |
| gazette.blocks[139][0] |
林委員為洲：OK，我問你才答嘛，你不能問我問題嘛。 |
| gazette.blocks[140][0] |
陳院長建仁：我沒有問你呀。 |
| gazette.blocks[141][0] |
林委員為洲：這個是規定呀。 |
| gazette.blocks[142][0] |
陳院長建仁：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[143][0] |
林委員為洲：好不好？我也可以叫你不回答，你也可以…… |
| gazette.blocks[144][0] |
陳院長建仁：我可以徵求你的同意嘛…… |
| gazette.blocks[145][0] |
林委員為洲：我叫你不回答，你就不用回答，我要繼續講。 |
| gazette.blocks[146][0] |
陳院長建仁：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[147][0] |
林委員為洲：我要演講也可以嘛，是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[148][0] |
陳院長建仁：對、對、對。 |
| gazette.blocks[149][0] |
林委員為洲：這個是我的時間。 |
| gazette.blocks[150][0] |
陳院長建仁：那我會徵求你的同意。 |
| gazette.blocks[151][0] |
林委員為洲：那個高端啦，我早上也一直聽到你提到這個高端，你特別提到說，高端是一個好的疫苗。 |
| gazette.blocks[152][0] |
陳院長建仁：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[153][0] |
林委員為洲：是嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[154][0] |
陳院長建仁：是，當然是，國際認證。 |
| gazette.blocks[155][0] |
林委員為洲：好啦，高端的這個COVID-19，我們現在只講它的COVID-19這個疫苗啦…… |
| gazette.blocks[156][0] |
陳院長建仁：也是國際認證的好疫苗。 |
| gazette.blocks[157][0] |
林委員為洲：其他的疫苗我們不談啦。 |
| gazette.blocks[158][0] |
陳院長建仁：也是國際認證。 |
| gazette.blocks[159][0] |
林委員為洲：國際認可，它有賣給哪一個國家嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[160][0] |
陳院長建仁：它現在有世界衛生組織跟它簽一個技術授權的……如果有需要的…… |
| gazette.blocks[161][0] |
林委員為洲：有賣1劑嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[162][0] |
陳院長建仁：不是，都是全部的技術的合約喔。 |
| gazette.blocks[163][0] |
林委員為洲：有收入嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[164][0] |
陳院長建仁：當然有技轉就是有收入…… |
| gazette.blocks[165][0] |
林委員為洲：到目前為止除了賣流感疫苗，其他疫苗有啦，但是賣這COVID-19疫苗的收入是零，除了中華民國衛福部跟它買500萬劑…… |
| gazette.blocks[166][0] |
陳院長建仁：那還好買了這…… |
| gazette.blocks[167][0] |
林委員為洲：這是事實啊。 |
| gazette.blocks[168][0] |
陳院長建仁：那我可以回答嗎？我可以回答嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[169][0] |
林委員為洲：你還說高端是好疫苗…… |
| gazette.blocks[170][0] |
陳院長建仁：我可以回答嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[171][0] |
林委員為洲：那請問為什麼去日本打高端不算耶？這是要怎麼說？ |
| gazette.blocks[172][0] |
陳院長建仁：現在換我…… |
| gazette.blocks[173][0] |
林委員為洲：不然給你說一下，為什麼日本不認可？ |
| gazette.blocks[174][0] |
陳院長建仁：日本當時是說，只要被世界衛生組織認可的疫苗它都接受，因為…… |
| gazette.blocks[175][0] |
林委員為洲：我們真的沒有被衛生組織認可。 |
| gazette.blocks[176][0] |
陳院長建仁：但是因為我們還沒有。 |
| gazette.blocks[177][0] |
林委員為洲：還沒有。 |
| gazette.blocks[178][0] |
陳院長建仁：可是我要講的是…… |
| gazette.blocks[179][0] |
林委員為洲：現在有了嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[180][0] |
陳院長建仁：打了這個300萬……現在日本根本入境都不需要…… |
| gazette.blocks[181][0] |
林委員為洲：沒有啦，現在已經被WHO認可了嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[182][0] |
陳院長建仁：這300萬劑的疫苗打下去以後，我們發現它的效益是跟BNT、跟莫德納一樣的好，比AZ還好，那比起…… |
| gazette.blocks[183][0] |
林委員為洲：那是你在講的。 |
| gazette.blocks[184][0] |
陳院長建仁：這論文發表，所以就反科學啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[185][0] |
林委員為洲：日本都不認同啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[186][0] |
陳院長建仁：這是新興傳染病這一個重要的學術期刊發表的論文，你如果連這個都否認，那就不用講，不用在這裡講哪一個疫苗好啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[187][0] |
林委員為洲：好啦！你要辯你就這樣去辯，人家日本就打臉你嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[188][0] |
陳院長建仁：本來就是這樣啊！這是國際認證的疫苗。 |
| gazette.blocks[189][0] |
林委員為洲：你打AZ、打BNT都可以到日本，結果打高端就不行，你還要再打別的，這是事實啊！不是嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[190][0] |
陳院長建仁：是事實，但是是日本當時的規定。 |
| gazette.blocks[191][0] |
林委員為洲：日本科技不發達嗎？生醫沒有我們發達，是嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[192][0] |
陳院長建仁：確實。 |
| gazette.blocks[193][0] |
林委員為洲：確實？ |
| gazette.blocks[194][0] |
陳院長建仁：我現在講嘛，日本發展出來的COVID-19疫苗沒有一個成功的，沒有一個像高端一樣成功的。 |
| gazette.blocks[195][0] |
林委員為洲：好啦！我現在問你，到底高端的合約你有看過嗎？我們衛福部跟高端訂的合約，你看過沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[196][0] |
薛部長瑞元：我有看過，院長應該沒有。 |
| gazette.blocks[197][0] |
林委員為洲：院長沒看過，所以你要講，有時候你自己都不知道內容欸！ |
| gazette.blocks[198][0] |
陳院長建仁：我…… |
| gazette.blocks[199][0] |
林委員為洲：你沒看過啊！人家部長說你沒看過，你看過嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[200][0] |
陳院長建仁：詳細的我沒有看過。 |
| gazette.blocks[201][0] |
林委員為洲：好啦，那就問部長吧！價格是多少？一劑。 |
| gazette.blocks[202][0] |
薛部長瑞元：價格，這個高端公司曾經自己發表過，單劑的話是881，如果多劑型的話是810塊，然後它贈送20萬劑。 |
| gazette.blocks[203][0] |
林委員為洲：好啦，這樣我知道了，問你這個問題嘛，881實在是滿貴的啦，加上我們對它的補助款四億多，合起來1,000塊一劑啊，比BNT還貴啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[204][0] |
薛部長瑞元：怎麼會有1,000塊這個說法？ |
| gazette.blocks[205][0] |
林委員為洲：你有另外補助四億多，算一算一劑等於是1,000塊。 |
| gazette.blocks[206][0] |
薛部長瑞元：就沒有啊！就跟你說八百多塊啊。 |
| gazette.blocks[207][0] |
林委員為洲：八百多塊那是買疫苗的錢，你們有另外……人家那個董事會的錄音帶都出來了啦，說你們有另外補助它四億多啊，不是嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[208][0] |
薛部長瑞元：沒有啦，那個是什麼…… |
| gazette.blocks[209][0] |
林委員為洲：董事會亂講的？ |
| gazette.blocks[210][0] |
陳院長建仁：這是疫苗研發時候的補助。 |
| gazette.blocks[211][0] |
林委員為洲：以外的…… |
| gazette.blocks[212][0] |
薛部長瑞元：對啊！對啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[213][0] |
林委員為洲：不是購買疫苗的錢啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[214][0] |
陳院長建仁：吳委員已經講了啊，全世界每一個國家在研發的過程當中都會補助廠商，我們補助了國光…… |
| gazette.blocks[215][0] |
林委員為洲：四億多。 |
| gazette.blocks[216][0] |
陳院長建仁：補助了聯亞，也補助高端，這是在研發的過程…… |
| gazette.blocks[217][0] |
林委員為洲：跟國外廠商最大的差別…… |
| gazette.blocks[218][0] |
陳院長建仁：美國就補助輝瑞4,000億。 |
| gazette.blocks[219][0] |
林委員為洲：我知道，好，跟國外廠商…… |
| gazette.blocks[220][0] |
陳院長建仁：所以該不該補助？該不該研發？要嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[221][0] |
林委員為洲：那個跟國外廠商不一樣的是，高端就沒經過三期的認證，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[222][0] |
薛部長瑞元：委員如果有打過莫德納、BNT，這些也還沒有過三期。 |
| gazette.blocks[223][0] |
林委員為洲：人家國外有補助，BNT這些都有補助。 |
| gazette.blocks[224][0] |
陳院長建仁：你當時打BNT…… |
| gazette.blocks[225][0] |
林委員為洲：全球各國家都認同，你的高端就沒有國家認同，只有我們衛福部是唯一的客人，顧客只有一個。 |
| gazette.blocks[226][0] |
陳院長建仁：你講三期的疫苗，委員，你當時如果打BNT、打莫德納，你打的也不是三期臨床實驗後的疫苗喔，不是喔！你一定要有這樣的一個觀念。 |
| gazette.blocks[227][0] |
林委員為洲：你們現在到底要公開這個合約了沒有？決定了沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[228][0] |
薛部長瑞元：這個部分的話，高端公司已經對外發了聲明，下午的時候他們也…… |
| gazette.blocks[229][0] |
林委員為洲：人家高端在重大訊息…… |
| gazette.blocks[230][0] |
薛部長瑞元：他們準備開董事會。 |
| gazette.blocks[231][0] |
林委員為洲：高端的重訊都說不是我們不公布，是因為衛福部機關要求公開…… |
| gazette.blocks[232][0] |
薛部長瑞元：這是錯誤，早上已經有解釋過了。 |
| gazette.blocks[233][0] |
林委員為洲：那請金管會，院長，部長沒有辦法管到高端，金管會要管一下，重大訊息發布錯誤，這要罰款的，有沒有罰則？重大訊息發布假訊息，這有沒有罰則？請說！ |
| gazette.blocks[234][0] |
黃主任委員天牧：有，櫃買中心對重大訊息如果有內容的問題，櫃買會決定到底…… |
| gazette.blocks[235][0] |
林委員為洲：罰款還是怎麼樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[236][0] |
黃主任委員天牧：過去的案例是罰款。 |
| gazette.blocks[237][0] |
林委員為洲：好，有聽到了喔！因為人家薛部長都講了那個是假訊息。 |
| gazette.blocks[238][0] |
黃主任委員天牧：但是前提必須是內容有錯誤，這要看櫃買去認定。 |
| gazette.blocks[239][0] |
林委員為洲：好啦！時間的關係，我最後再問一次啦，到底什麼時候高端疫苗合約會公告給國人周知？到底什麼時候？ |
| gazette.blocks[240][0] |
薛部長瑞元：我剛剛已經報告過，高端公司已經決定要召開臨時董事會了，那它…… |
| gazette.blocks[241][0] |
林委員為洲：遙遙無期。 |
| gazette.blocks[242][0] |
薛部長瑞元：不能這樣講。 |
| gazette.blocks[243][0] |
林委員為洲：你要求它啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[244][0] |
薛部長瑞元：它召開董事會…… |
| gazette.blocks[245][0] |
林委員為洲：你是客戶欸！ |
| gazette.blocks[246][0] |
薛部長瑞元：給我們一個訊息…… |
| gazette.blocks[247][0] |
林委員為洲：人家現在買到疫苗的人有疑慮，客戶……你跟它購買…… |
| gazette.blocks[248][0] |
陳院長建仁：我們的合約是簽5年保密協定，政府要信守誠信。 |
| gazette.blocks[249][0] |
林委員為洲：哎呀！這些聽就好，民眾聽不下去。 |
| gazette.blocks[250][0] |
陳院長建仁：他們現在也同意去討論。 |
| gazette.blocks[251][0] |
林委員為洲：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[252][0] |
主席：謝謝林委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[252][1] |
報告院會，本日排定質詢的委員都已經詢答完畢，謝謝陳院長及相關部會首長列席答詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[252][2] |
作以下之決定：一、將各委員發言紀錄及書面質詢函送行政院，請就未答復部分予以書面答復。二、已提出之書面質詢，尚未登載公報者，一律補刊。 |
| gazette.blocks[252][3] |
報告院會，本次會議所列議程已經處理完畢。依據立法院議事規則第五十四條規定，本屆最後一次院會之議事錄於散會前宣讀，現在請林秘書長宣讀第8會期第1次臨時會第1次會議議事錄。（全文見本期議事錄） |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
86 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
臨時會院會-10-8-1-1 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
游錫堃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
邱顯智 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
邱臣遠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
曾銘宗 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
林俊憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
邱泰源 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
蔡適應 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
吳斯懷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
洪申翰 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
游毓蘭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
莊瑞雄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
李德維 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
吳玉琴 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
林為洲 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
1 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-01-09 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1130301 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1130301_00002 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[1] |
1130301_00003 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第10屆第8會期第1次臨時會第1次會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
施政質詢
行政院院長提出「是否公布高端合約？是否圖利廠商及危害全民健康權益？」等相關事宜專案報
告並備質詢─ 詢答完畢─ |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
4.682 |
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國防部長林委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
18.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
46.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
我們剛剛3點05分這是我們有一個警報是中國發射了衛星你剛剛是講說飛彈對我講錯了因為我剛好要上來質詢我只是說發射我想說發射那實際上是發射衛星但是因為有經過發射衛星要國家級警報嗎當然啊因為它也是一個投射器啊一個否建的投射器發射 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
47.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
54.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
韓國發射衛星發射多少你知道嗎每一次都發國家級警報嗎上一次真正發射黑彈橫越臺灣的上空沒有發國家級警報所以你們現在是怎樣 碰到選舉製造緊張嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
74.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
76.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
以前飛彈飛過臺灣領空說大氣層不屬於領空沒有發國家警報現在發射一個衛星 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
85.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
94.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
你發國家急警報我收到兩次你還講說是飛彈這是我的口誤但是呢確實是有經過台灣的上面寫的剛才一看還沒有看完的時候我就上來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
104.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
107.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
3點05分中國發射衛星已飛越南部上空請民眾注意安全若發現不明物體 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
119.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
144.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
通報警消人員處理那個衛星是會掉下來是不是不明物體人家會發射衛星你在警告我們的民眾推動的火箭的每一節每一節的火箭都會落到地下為什麼要提高警覺為什麼要提高警覺這個容易讓人誤解你看他的英文叫Air Raid Alert |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
145.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
170.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
MISOFLY OVER TAIWAN AIR SPACEBEWAREMISO是SATELLITE還是是MISO還是SATELLITE人造衛星怎麼講啊SATELLITE啊那怎麼寫MISO這個這個我我就你寫飛彈欸你以為台灣人都不懂英文這個錯誤的話我們要來更正錯誤馬上更正 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
175.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
178.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
第一次第一次我們看到說對岸發射衛星我們有人說四次我說兩次國家級警報英文還寫成MISO |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
204.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
218.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
這是火箭搭載著衛星那為什麼要公告就是我講的這個火箭會一點一點掉下來而且選前四天有沒有借選這是你自己講的但是中國的衛星為什麼衛星用國家機器在借選 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
228.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
243.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
投射衛星有不同的路線可是他偏偏要經過台灣南部上空那你不會覺得這有點需要讓民眾知道嗎四衛星為什麼一定要經過台灣南部上空讓民眾知道不要啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
244.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
264.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
沒有啊你們發的簡訊英文你怎麼解釋啊火箭搭載發射的衛星啊你為什麼不寫satellite我們一定要讓民眾知道說投射這個衛星的時候火箭會掉下來大家要小心 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
265.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
268.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
你的簡訊不導民眾讓民眾容易誤會說我真的是發射飛彈對不對 你的簡訊要不要道歉啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
280.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
302.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
你為什麼不直接寫是Satellite Artificial SatelliteSatellite不是Launch Satellite不是用這一個字啦所以我想這個你剛剛不是跟我回答說人造衛星怎麼講英文怎麼講Satellite對啊那你為什麼不用Satellite就是Satellite fly over這一句話要小心因為人造衛星本來就在地球上飛過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
303.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
306.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這是一個投射的行為以前他們發過多少衛星從來我們都不曾接受過這種國家級警報這剛好選舉前四天 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
323.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
323.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
防空警報 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
352.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
363.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
然後寫成MISO讓人不倒是這是一個黃昏的警報因為火箭的那個會掉下來會砸到人第一次有這種國家級警報是因為發射衛星 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
368.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
371.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
他明明有經過台灣南部上空那為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
390.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
402.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
在選前4天他要選擇這一個路線問中國請委員以前連飛彈飛過你都沒搭坐這種國家級警報所以委員你去問中國嘛你為什麼凡事都沒有去問中國明明中國發射的衛星為什麼要選擇這條路線你選擇在這4天來去 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
420.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
427.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
蔡英文總統上台以後兩岸中線不見了這個也是事實嘛國民黨執政的時候沒有這種問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
429.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
450.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那因為你屈服屈服給中國當然要屈服我們要抬了嗎你贊成要統一阿我沒有贊成要統一阿我不是說你阿我支持我們的憲法馬英九總統的時候是這樣子阿我們支持我們的憲法憲法怎麼規定我們就怎麼做你不支持我們憲法嗎那我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
452.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
475.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
憲法是災難嗎?修正條文怎麼說?我們的治權就是臺澎金馬修正條文怎麼說?就是臺澎金馬是我們的治權但是我們國家叫中華民國固有疆域包括中國大陸那是固有疆域?那你延長的...法案條例就是在處理這個問題啊那你不認同我們的憲法? |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
478.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
479.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
在這裡嚴厲譴責國防部 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
494.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
509.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
民進黨政府在這個選前4天發了這樣的一個國家級警告有人說4次 有人說2次發射一個衛星誤導成說發射飛彈顯然就是故意要借選現在我們來談高端我還有時間的喔是我在質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
520.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
532.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
但是我們共用時間啊OK 這個我問你才答嘛 你不能問我問題嘛這個是規定啊 對不對 好不好我也可以叫你不回答 你也可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
533.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
534.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
高端是一個好的疫苗 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
550.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
554.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
他現在有世界衛生組織跟他簽一個技術授權的 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
569.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
575.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
除了賣流感疫苗其他疫苗有啦但是賣這個COVID19疫苗的收入是零除了 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
589.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
601.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
中華民國衛福部跟他買五百萬劑這是事實啊你還說高端是好疫苗那請問為什麼去日本打高端不算欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
602.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
605.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
日本當時是說只要被世界衛生組織認可的疫苗他都接受我們這個沒有被衛生組織認可現在有了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
621.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
636.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
現在日本根本入境都不需要沒有啦現在已經被WHO認可了嗎這300萬劑的疫苗打下去以後我們發現它的效益是跟BNT跟莫德納是一樣的好比AZ還好那比起AZ你講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
638.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
640.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這是國際認證的法治條你打AZ打BNT都可以到日本結果打高端都不行你要再打八項這是事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
664.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
667.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
到底高端的合約你有看過嗎?衛福部跟高端訂的合約你看過沒有? |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
688.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
693.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我有看過 院長應該沒有院長沒看過 所以你要講 有時候你自己都不知道內容欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
695.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
718.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
你沒看過 人家部長說你沒看過這一個詳細的沒有看過我沒有看過部長那就問部長吧價格是多少 一季啊價格 這個高端公司曾經自己發表過那如果單季的話是881那如果多季型的話是810塊然後他贈送20萬季 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
721.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
725.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
所以我問你這個問題881實在是蠻貴的加上我們對他的補助款4億多合起來1000塊一劑比BNT還貴 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
737.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
757.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
怎麼會有一千塊這個事?你如果補助另外一個死的我,你還要算上去,算上下去一計等於是一千塊,那就告訴你八百多塊啊八百多塊那是買疫苗的錢,你們有另外,人家那個董事會的錄音帶都出來了啊所以你們有另外補助他四億多啊,不是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
758.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
759.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
所以該不該補助 該不該研發 要嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
786.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
810.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
那個跟國外廠商不一樣的是高端就沒經過三期的這個認證委員如果有打過那些莫德納啦BMP啊BMP這些都有補助讓全球各國家都認同你的高端就沒有國家認同只有我們衛福部是唯一的客人 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
810.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
828.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
你講三期的疫苗委員你當時如果打BNT打莫德納你打的也不是三期臨床實驗後的疫苗喔不是喔你一定要有這樣的一個觀念你們現在到底要公開這個合約了沒有決定了沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
829.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
831.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
高端的重大訊息重訊都說不是我們不公布是因為衛福部機關要求錯誤早上已經有解釋過 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
849.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
876.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
請金管會 這個院長 這個部長沒有辦法管到高端金管會要管一下 重大訊息發布錯誤這要罰款的 要罰則的 有沒有罰則重大訊息發布假訊息這有沒有罰則請說有 櫃買中心有對重大訊息如果有內容的問題櫃買會決定他到底有沒有罰款還是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
877.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
878.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
高端公司已經決定要召開臨時董事會 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
904.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
908.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我們的合約是簽5年保密協定政府要信守誠信 |